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Engineer writes bulletproof rant on why 'over' is the optimal toilet paper position

Tensile strength? Alignment stability? I'm convinced.

Photo by Erik Mclean on Unsplash

The great toilet paper debate refuses to die. Whether to hang the loose end of the roll "over" or "under" has been inspiring heated disagreements for years. Some years, one faction or the other gains ground, but the opposing view never really gets snuffed out. It quietly regroups and comes back with a vengeance when we least expect it, and the toilet paper wars continue on.

Over the decades, many different kinds of experts have been enlisted into the conflict. Psychologists, anthropologists, marriage counselors, and doctors have been asked to weigh in on this debate repeatedly, each bringing a different perspective into why we all have such a strong preference on this topic, and the pros and cons of each.

Now the physical science experts are weighing in. An engineer from BFW Marcum recently unleashed an epic, totally unnecessary, and quite convincing rant about why there's definitively one correct way to orient your TP.

Elya, CC BY-SA 3.0, via Wikimedia Commons

Here's what the engineer had to say about the toilet paper over vs under debate.

"You—the dregs of society that put toilet paper with the flap situated under—you know what you’re doing is wrong," the screed begins. "You must feel it in your bones—some kind of primitive instinctual whispering in your ear. Just look at it—flapping in the breeze of your bathroom like some kind of sad white flag of surrender."

Then we get into the technical, engineer-y reasons that over is supposedly best.

1. Friction Coefficient: The coefficient of friction between the paper and the user’s hand is significantly lower when the paper is hanging over.
2. Tensile Strength: The tensile strength of the paper is optimized when it is hanging over, as the weight of the roll pulls the paper taut. This reduces the risk of tearing and provides a more consistent wipe.
We’ve all fallen victim to pulling off a ragged, possibly too-long length of toilet paper. Not only is it wasteful, but it could also very well ruin your plumbing.
3. Optimal Dispensing Angle: Studies have shown the optimal angle for dispensing toilet paper is between 10 and 15 degrees from horizontal, which is only achievable when the paper is hanging over. This ensures that the user can easily grab the paper and tear it off without awkward twisting or bending.
How do you explain to your peers that your carpal tunnel is not from your desk job, but from the terrible and unnatural way in which you hang your toilet paper?
4. Alignment Stability: When the paper is hanging over, the roll’s natural tendency is to unroll smoothly, reducing the risk of misalignment or uneven dispensing. This results in more efficient use of paper and less waste.

In short, you're more like to get a clean tear, less likely to waste paper, and less likely to get the roll all tangled up with the over method.

Is this all a bunch of gobbledygook, or is this real science? I'm not sure, but either way, it's pretty convincing. It definitely feels like hanging the flap over makes it easier to grab and tear without the roll spinning endlessly, and now I understand (kind of) why that might be.

Lest we actually settle the matter for good, it's worth noting that one physicist interviewed by Vice disagrees and says that, at least when it comes to mechanics, over or under toilet paper is exactly the same.

“Whether you hang toilet paper facing against the wall or facing forward, the rotational kinetic energy you impart on the roll is the same, and it requires the same amount of torque. They’re mirror images of each other, which means the amount of energy you have to expend is the same.” Brian Wecht said. Another physics professor interviewed in the piece more or less agreed, but added that the human element that comes into play is a wild card. The way people approach the roll, whether they're right or left handed, and how much force they apply when they pull and tear, it all factors in.

(I love the idea of highly educated scientists spending their time thinking about problems like this. Did you know that a nuclear physicist once shared a hilarious complex formula to determine if it's better to fold or wad or your toilet paper before wiping?)

Health experts have agreed for years that "over" is also the more hygienic alignment.

Apparently when the flap hangs behind or under the roll, it's harder to grab without accidentally rubbing your hand against the wall. And let's not even talk about the different kinds of bacteria and germs that live on bathroom walls.

Of course, with good hand-washing, this shouldn't be that big of a deal, but it's still a little icky.

The final piece of evidence lies in the original patent for the toilet paper roll, submitted in 1891 by a Mr. Seth Wheeler. You can clearly see that the inventor intended the free end to hang in the front where it would be easy to see and grab.

toilet paper patent image Public Domain

Ultimately, even if the physicists and engineers and NASA scientists all agree that hanging the toilet paper "over" is slightly better, we're talking about a very small difference in efficiency here. If you like the under method because it looks cleaner or keeps your kids from pulling at the roll, you probably aren't worried about a 1% differential in tensile strength and coefficient of friction.

The scientists might know physics, but they know little of the human heart. If hanging your toilet paper rolls under just feels right to you, don't let these nerds tell you otherwise.

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health

Health

Most of us use our cell phones in the bathroom. Health experts say it's a big no-no.

It's not just about the germs.

Photo credit: Canva

A significant majority of people admit to using their phones on the toilet.

If you're reading this article on the toilet (no judgment), chances are you're not alone. According to a NordVPN survey of 10 countries, somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of us have a habit of using our phones in the bathroom. Another survey found that people ages 18 to 29 use their phones on the toilet a whopping 93% of the time. That means there’s a whole lot of throne scrolling happening, and probably a lot of denial that it’s happening as well.

After all, bathrooms aren’t exactly sanitary. Most of us can deduce that having a phone anywhere near a flushing toilet is likely to contaminate it with bacteria we don’t really want to swipe onto our fingers. Ew.

Experts say the bacteria-spreading potential of using your phone in the loo is a big reason to break the habit, but it’s by no means the only one.

First, yes, bacteria gets on your phone

Is it really that much of a risk to use your phone the bathroom? Most of us do it and seem fine, don’t we?

Let's put it this way. You wouldn't willingly swipe your finger around a toilet rim, right? Scientists at the University of Arizona have found that cell phones carry 10 times more bacteria than most toilet seats, and bringing our phones into the bathroom certainly doesn't help. Our immune systems can handle a lot, but we're still exposing ourselves unnecessarily to potentially harmful bacteria such as salmonella, E. Coli and C. Difficile when we use our phones in the bathroom (or when we use the toilet and don't wash our hands afterward).

via GIPHY

There are ways to minimize how germy your phone gets in the bathroom, such as paying close attention to what the phone is touching and what your hands are doing before you touch your phone. Closing the lid when you flush helps some, too.

Better yet, leave the phone when you gotta go, always wash your hands, and wipe down your phone with alcohol regularly. Simple, but so important.

Second, scrolling can make you spend too long on the toilet

This may not seem like a problem, but it is. Sitting on a toilet isn’t like sitting on a chair. Experts say you should spend no more than 10 minutes on the toilet to do your business, and preferably much less time than that.

“First, using your phone while doing number two can lead to prolonged sitting on the toilet, which can cause strain and pressure on your rectum and anus,” gastroenterologist Dr. Saurabh Sethi explained in a video. “This can lead to issues such as hemorrhoids, anal fissures and rectal prolapse.”

Yikes. We all know how easy it is to lose track of time when we're on our phones. When we're alone in the bathroom with nothing to distract us from our scrolling, it's even easier.

Sitting too long on the toilet can cause uncomfortable problems.Photo credit: Canva

Third, the phone addiction thing

In reality, it shouldn't be too hard for us to leave our phone behind for a few minutes to use the toilet. If we always feel the need to bring our phone with us into the bathroom, what does that say about our phone habits?

I'm not saying that everyone who uses their phone on the toilet is a phone addict, but there's a good chance we're not being as mindful as we probably should be about our phone use if we automatically whip it out on the toilet. And since nearly 57% of Americans say they are addicted to their phones, maybe setting a boundary for bathroom use is a good first step toward addressing the issue.

Finally, phones do occasionally take a toilet plunge

Dropping your phone into the toilet might sound like a joke, but it happens more often than you'd think. As of 2014, around 1 in 5 Americans had dropped their phone in the toilet. Considering how much phone usage has increased since then, it's doubtful that number has gone down.

via GIPHY

Whether it falls out of your back pocket when you pull your pants down or it just inexplicably slips from your fingers, dropping a phone in a toilet is not fun. You can imagine the various scenarios that would make it particularly bad, but even if it takes a plunge before you actually use the toilet, it's still a nightmare scenario. Nobody wants to fish a phone out of a toilet and try to figure out how to sanitize it. Not good for the phone, not good for you, not good for anyone. You can avoid the possibility completely by just not bringing the thing into the bathroom in the first place.

Habits die hard, but having solid reasons for wanting to change can be motivating. If you've been feeling iffy about bringing your phone to the toilet with you, see this as a sign to break that habit sooner than later. (Especially if you really are reading this on the throne.)

From Your Site Articles

health

Health

Over or under? Surprisingly, there actually is a 'correct' way to hang a toilet paper roll.

Let's settle this silly-but-surprisingly-heated debate once and for all.

Elya/Wikimedia Commons

Should you hang the toilet paper roll over or under?

Humans have debated things large and small over the millennia, from the democracy to breastfeeding in public to how often people ought to wash their sheets.

But perhaps the most silly-yet-surprisingly-heated household debate is the one in which we argue over which way to hang the toilet paper roll.

The "over or under" question has plagued marriages and casual acquaintances alike for over 100 years, with both sides convinced they have the soundest reasoning for putting their toilet paper loose end out or loose end under. Some people feel so strongly about right vs. wrong TP hanging that they will even flip the roll over when they go to the bathroom in the homes of strangers.

Contrary to popular belief, it's not merely an inconsequential preference. There is actually a "correct" way to hang toilet paper, according to health experts as well as the man who invented the toilet paper roll in the first place.

First, let's be clear about what we're even talking about here with a visual. In the image below, left is "over" and right is "under."

Toilet paper hung "over" (left) and "under" (right)

Elya/Wikimedia Commons

So which one is the right way? According to health experts, "over" is the way to go.

"One key to maintaining a hygienic washroom is minimising contact between people and surfaces," Dr. Christian Moro, associate professor of health sciences and medicine at Bond University on Australia's Gold Coast, told Australian Broadcasting Corporation. "Depending on the type of roll holder, [hanging the toilet paper "over"] often lowers the chance that a user will touch the wall behind when fishing for paper, leaving germs behind on that surface which can be spread to the next user."

Picture it: Grabbing the end of the toilet paper when it's hung "over" means you only touch the part of the toilet paper you're going to use. When it's "under," you sometimes have to fish for it or scrape your fingers on the wall in order to grab the loose end. In addition to whatever might be on people's hands already, think about all the people who wipe twice, potentially transferring fresh fecal matter or other bacteria to the wall on the second pass, which then get picked up by other people who inadvertently touch that wall when trying to grab their TP.

Theoretically, we all should have become better hand washers during the pandemic, scrubbing with soap for the full 20 seconds it takes to remove bacteria. But I wouldn't be willing to bet on it.

And touching any surface in a bathroom is pretty nasty, according to a study from the University of Colorado. As Inc. reported: "Using a high-tech genetic sequencing tool, researchers identified 19 groups of bacteria on the doors, floors, faucet handles, soap dispensers, and toilets of 12 public restrooms in Colorado — six men’s restrooms and six women’s restrooms. Many of the bacteria strains identified could be transmitted by touching contaminated surfaces."

Bacteria means things like e.coli, which is a common source of food poisoning and one of the most common bacteria found on bathroom surfaces in the study. If you've ever had a bout of food poisoning, I'm sure you'll agree that a toilet paper roll hanging preference isn't worth risking it.

But sanitary health concerns aren't the only argument for the "over" camp. After all, the original patent for the toilet paper roll, issued in 1891, clearly shows the TP in the "over" position. Thank you for the clarity right from the get go, Mr. Wheeler.

The toilet paper roll was patented by Seth Wheeler in 1891.

Public Domain

Now, before the "under" folks come running with their pitchforks, there are some understandable exceptions to the "over" rule. Namely: cats and kids.

If you have a furry friend or a tiny toddler who likes to unroll the toilet paper roll, "over" makes it super fun for them, while "under" stops them in their tracks. For many people, cats and kids are the primary motivator of their TP hanging habits.

That doesn't change the fact that "over" is actually the "correct" way to hang toilet paper according to health science and the inventor's intention, of course, but "under" is certainly preferable to having a pile of TP on the floor.

Now go forth, do that with information as you will, and try to make peace with your over vs. under rivals.

This article originally appeared on 3.13.24

From Your Site Articles

health

Accessibility does not always equal accommodation.

There’s a bathroom secret I think you don’t know about.

And no, this one has nothing to do with transgender people or sex or gender. In fact, it couldn’t be less sexy, which is probably why you haven’t heard about it.

Imagine you’re out and about, maybe at a restaurant with your family or a museum with your kids or a movie with your sweetie. But then you need to use the restroom. Now here’s the tricky part: You’re in a wheelchair.

OK, no biggie. The door is mechanized; the stall is large enough; there’s even room to pivot your chair to the sink. Except ... what if you’re one of the wheelchair users who needs to lay down to take care of business? The fact that a wheelchair user can fit into a bathroom stall doesn’t mean a damn thing if that person can’t maneuver themselves onto the toilet.

Accessibility does not always equal accommodation.

There are about 3.3 million wheelchair users in the U.S.

A third of those folks need help with activities of daily living, one of the most crucial being diapering care.Many wheelchair users also need a changing table and, usually, a caregiver or attendant to get the job done. But, generally, public restroom changing tables only accommodate babies.

You might get lucky with a family restroom — those single-room offerings where, say, a dad can take his toddler daughter. Maybe there’ll be a counter long and wide enough. Of course, that doesn’t solve the problem of getting on that counter. Parents with disabled children often contrive some method that involves going back out to the car or van. That’s what I did until my son got too big, and the awkward transfer from wheelchair to makeshift changing area endangered my back. And that doesn’t even touch on privacy issues or dignity or cleanliness.

Me and my son in a restroom with an actual adult-sized changing table. All photos provided by Carla Christensen.

As a last, very last, very loathed resort, I may have to use that handicap access stall in the public restroom. And that means laying my son on the floor and praying I remembered to tuck some extra mats or pads into his wheelchair backpack as well as a vat of antiseptic gel.

Next time you’re in a public restroom, imagine lying on the floor.

Even if it’s just been cleaned. Aside from the questionable hygiene, how undignified would that be? And not even private — most bathroom stalls are open at the bottom.

While you’re at it, picture me trying to transfer my son from his wheelchair to the floor, bending and contorting to get the job done, and then getting him back up into his chair. I’m getting sweaty just writing about it.

I know what you’re thinking: If this is such a problem, how come I’ve never seen anything like it?

Well, I could say something about the American public’s general squeamishness about necessary functions in the necessary room, but I’ll save that for another article. More to the point, the reason you don’t see us is that we don’t go out. A mom from Wisconsin once wrote to a festival organizer about her family’s difficulties, and she gave me permission to share it:

"Unfortunately, what we are now forced into more often due to my son's age is to go home before the end of the movie, the soccer game, the concert. And he is missing out on what his peers take for granted ... . Families like ours ... don't go out!"

The Wisconsin mom and her family.

My husband and I used divide-and-conquer strategies so our daughters got out to the movies, and a generous aunt took them to Disneyland while I stayed home with my son. But take the family out to dinner? No way. Trip to the beach? Forget about it. There are nature trails with handicap access paths and special spaces for wheelchairs at theaters, but that doesn’t matter if you can’t attend to essential bodily functions.

I don’t care what your gender is or what your body is like or if you have a disability: You should be able to use the bathroom wherever you go.

It’s a basic human right.

If you need to accompany your young child or your elderly parent to the restroom. If you’d like a private place to breastfeed. And especially if you have no other choice for dealing with diapering. You deserve to be able to go to the restroom in peace.

That’s why single-stall bathrooms should be available in every store and every restaurant and every office in America. Single-stall bathrooms are a great way to ensure that everyone who needs to use the restroom can. But special-needs users also need special accommodation: an adult-sized changing table.

This bathroom is inclusive... except for folks with disabilities.

Now, every time I use a public restroom, whether I’m with my son or not, I scope out the facilities. I’m a mom on a mission.

You’d be amazed how often the single-stall restroom, where it exists, doesn’t have a changing table for anyone larger than a toddler. Or how often the space for the baby changing table is large enough for a bigger table. I’m taking names.

And if you want to help out? There’s a grassroots organization called Changing Spaces, dedicated to literally changing the spaces where wheelchair users can be changed. Find them on Facebook. Start noticing the public restroom facilities and send emails to store and building managers.

Help me be the voice for change.

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Kristin Russo and her wife were at a restaurant in Union Square when they were faced with a serious dilemma: They both had to pee.

The problem wasn't that there was a line for the restroom. Quite the opposite. There were only two bathrooms; both single-stall, and both vacant.

Two people. Two private toilets. Should be easy, right?

And it is — except for that pesky stick figure of a man emblazoned on one of the doors, an arbitrary indicator of who is allowed to do their private business in that private little room.

GIF from "My Little Pony."

Sure, one of them probably could have just slipped into the men's room. But that wouldn't solve the larger problem: Why do we need to gender single-stall bathrooms in the first place?

"It's so silly, but it's a good reflection of how much that gender binary permeates our society," Russo told Upworthy.

GIF from "Adventure Time."

Russo felt compelled to do … something. But she wasn't exactly sure how to broach the subject with the restaurant's management.

Her feelings of nervousness and uncertainty came as a surprise even to her, considering the fact that she's the co-founder and CEO of the LGBTQ community organization Everyone Is Gay. This kind of activism is what she does.

She also knew that this bathroom situation was even more difficult for people who are trans, non-binary, or gender nonconforming — people like Mal Blum, a singer-songwriter who lives in New York and is a major supporter of Russo's work.

"I was choosing between gendered single-stall bathrooms at a favorite diner in NYC just yesterday," Blum said over email. "Personally, I think it should be a law everywhere that if a bathroom is intended for use by one person, then it needs to be accessible for any one person and shouldn't be gendered."

GIF from "Big Bang Theory."

Because of her experience, and feedback from people like Blum, Russo was inspired to launch a new initiative called OUR Restroom.

Though it's still in its earliest funding stages, OUR (which stands for "One Unisex Restroom") is a pretty simple resource that allows people to nominate businesses with single-stall bathrooms, asking them to embrace the full accommodations of gender neutrality.

Then the OUR team staff — which at this point is Russo and her colleague, singer/songwriter Allison Weiss — will reach out to those businesses and help them through the process of becoming a place where all people can pee in comfort.

"OUR Restroom will affect tangible day-to-day change for many people, because they're willing to put the work in to talk to businesses directly about this," Blum said.

On one hand, this sounds so simple that it's almost silly — it's basically just taking down a sign, right?

But on the other hand, it can still be a lot more complicated than that.

Weiss, left, and Russo, right, in action! GIF from OUR Restroom.

Some businesses might not realize that single-stall bathrooms are better for everyone because they're too busy to even think about it.

Others might be intimidated by the potentially labyrinthine zoning laws or other legal requirements in their states (which are slowly being broken down, state-by-state, but are still pretty ridiculous).

For example, the Craft Beer Cellar in Eagle Rock, California, was ready and willing to take down their gendered bathroom signs. But, according to Russo, several city engineers pointed out a passage in the city's zoning codes that might be a problem (emphasis added) :

"At least one toilet room is required on the premises. If over three (3) employee or if selling beer, wine or liquor to be consumed on the premises, separate toilet rooms are required for each sex."

It wasn't clear if these bathrooms had to be marked for each sex or if two unisex bathrooms would suffice. And even when she went down to the city's Building Safety Department to speak to someone directly, Russo couldn't figure out a clear standard of enforcement for it either.

In the end, the worst-case scenario would be … someone might make them put the signs back up. Maybe. Some day. And that's exactly what Russo and her team are there for: to navigate the weird laws, so businesses don't have to, and then kick those old gendered signs to the curb.

GIF from OUR Restroom.

In a time of rampant bathroom discrimination, the work that OUR Restroom is doing is more important than ever.

"I hope that this is the first step of our work, and then we can go further into the bathroom conversation," Russo told Upworthy. "Obviously HB2 is a huge part of this."

OUR Restroom is still just getting started, but they've already done some phenomenal work in a short time — for people of all genders. In the meantime, cities like Philadelphia, Seattle, and New York have also started requiring gender neutral bathrooms.

"People who are made most vulnerable by this (trans and gender nonconforming people) shouldn't have to be the ones to have that conversation (unless we want to, or want to work with or for OUR Restroom, that is)," Blum said, explaining the importance of OUR Restroom for people like them.

We all deserve to be as happy and comfortable as Elmo. GIF from "Sesame Street."

When everybody can do their business in comfort, everybody wins.

As New York Councilman Danny Dromm (D-Queens) said, "Designating single stall bathrooms as all gender is an easy way to create a welcoming environment for transgender and gender nonconforming individuals. As an added bonus, anyone who is looking for an unoccupied bathroom will now have more options."

See? Amazing how that works!

public restrooms

Engineer writes bulletproof rant on why 'over' is the optimal toilet paper position

Tensile strength? Alignment stability? I'm convinced.

Here's what the engineer had to say about the toilet paper over vs under debate.

Health experts have agreed for years that "over" is also the more hygienic alignment.

Most of us use our cell phones in the bathroom. Health experts say it's a big no-no.

It's not just about the germs.

First, yes, bacteria gets on your phone

Second, scrolling can make you spend too long on the toilet

Third, the phone addiction thing

Finally, phones do occasionally take a toilet plunge

Over or under? Surprisingly, there actually is a 'correct' way to hang a toilet paper roll.

Let's settle this silly-but-surprisingly-heated debate once and for all.

A mom of a kid with a disability explains a restroom problem you've maybe never heard of.

Accessibility does not always equal accommodation.

There’s a bathroom secret I think you don’t know about.

There are about 3.3 million wheelchair users in the U.S.

Next time you’re in a public restroom, imagine lying on the floor.

I know what you’re thinking: If this is such a problem, how come I’ve never seen anything like it?

I don’t care what your gender is or what your body is like or if you have a disability: You should be able to use the bathroom wherever you go.

Now, every time I use a public restroom, whether I’m with my son or not, I scope out the facilities. I’m a mom on a mission.

One woman's clever plan to revolutionize single-stall bathrooms.

Kristin Russo and her wife were at a restaurant in Union Square when they were faced with a serious dilemma: They both had to pee.

Sure, one of them probably could have just slipped into the men's room. But that wouldn't solve the larger problem: Why do we need to gender single-stall bathrooms in the first place?

Russo felt compelled to do … something. But she wasn't exactly sure how to broach the subject with the restaurant's management.

Because of her experience, and feedback from people like Blum, Russo was inspired to launch a new initiative called OUR Restroom.

On one hand, this sounds so simple that it's almost silly — it's basically just taking down a sign, right?

In a time of rampant bathroom discrimination, the work that OUR Restroom is doing is more important than ever.

When everybody can do their business in comfort, everybody wins.

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