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When should kids get a smartphone? Backed by science, concerned parents now have the answer.

Parents don't want their kids "left out." But what are they really signing up for?

wait until 8th, smartphones and kids, parenting
via Yan Krukau/Pexels

Four kids in school staring at their smartphones.

If you ask 20 parents the best age for a child to get a smartphone, you’ll probably get 20 different answers. That’s because we have yet to come to a consensus on when children are ready to have 24-hour-a-day contact with their friends and be subject to a brain-altering deluge of information algorithmically distributed to them by big tech companies.

Smartphones also expose users to all the harmful material available online and make them more vulnerable to bullying.

According to Common Sense Media, 42 percent of 10-year-olds report having smartphones. By age 12, that number increases to 71 percent; by age 14, it’s 91 percent. But what is the best age to give a child a smartphone so that they can stay in touch with their friends while also protecting their mental health?

When should parents give their child a smartphone?

An organization started by Brooke Shannon, a mother of 3, aims to set a new standard for parents everywhere. Wait Until 8th draws a line in the sand by saying the earliest a child should have a smartphone is after they've completed the 8th grade. “That is a reasonable time for parents to wait, and everyone will make a different decision for their family. Of course, the longer you can wait, the better," Mark SooHoo, a parent volunteer for the Wait Until 8th movement, told Upworthy.

SooHoo says social scientist Jonathan Haidt’s recent landmark book, “The Anxious Generation: How the Rewriting of Childhood is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness,” lays a strong foundation for delaying smartphone use as long as possible.

In the book, Haidt cites research that shows how, right around 2010, the U.S. and other developed nations saw an astronomical spike in mental health problems among young people, including self-harm, suicide, psychological distress, anxiety and depression. The spike perfectly coincides with the adaptation of smartphone technology and the subsequent decline in time spent with friends.

Or, as Haidt would write, the dawn of the phone-based childhood era.



Sapien Labs performed a study on nearly 28,000 young adults that found the age at which they were given smartphones or tablet technology “strongly correlates” with their mental health status. “The later the age at which these young adults first got a phone or tablet that they could carry with them in childhood, the better their mental well-being as adults,” the study states. "That's the core of what we're saying,” SooHoo told Upworthy. “This is all about the mental health of our children."

To help parents and children commit to the timeframe, Wait Until 8th created an online tool that makes it easy for parents to support each other in the decision. When you sign the Wait Until 8th pledge, you will be notified after at least 10 families from your child’s school and grade sign up, too. This gives parents strength in numbers to push back against their child’s requests for a smartphone. It also reduces the social pressure on kids without smartphones so they don’t feel left out.

wait until 8th, smartphones and kids, parentingWon't my child be left out without a smartphone?via Wait Until 8th/Instagram


SooHoo says community involvement gives parents more confidence in their decisions.

But what about parents who give their kids smartphones so they never lose touch with them? SooHoo says smartphones aren’t the only way to stay connected to your child. "This pledge is for smartphones only,” he told Upworthy. “Get them a smartwatch, get them a flip phone. Even something as simple as an AirTag can tell you where your child is."

Do children without smartphones feel left out?

Many parents eventually cave in and get their kids phones because they don’t want them to feel left out. "Yes, I understand it's a valid concern,” SooHoo told Upworthy, but he has a different view of what being “left out” means. “But I do want my child to be left out of bullying. I do want my child to be left out of negative body issues. I do want my child left out of the harmful effects of social media."

"These smartphones are designed by some of the world's most brilliant user interface experts who design them just like you would a Vegas casino to keep you hooked. To keep your attention. To keep those dopamine hits coming,” SooHoo continued. “So, yes, I do want my child left out of that."

What’s worse? For a child to be left out of a Snapchat conversation with friends or brought into a world where they can be easily bullied and develop a severe mental health problem?

parents and smartphones, kids and smartphones, kids and technology.Boys sitting down and staring at their phones.via Pixabay/Pexels

Katie Degen, another Wait Until 8th volunteer, noticed a massive change in her son after giving him a smartphone.

“We gave him one when he was in fifth grade and we saw a difference right away,” she told The Record North Shore. “When we took it away for any reason, we would see our old kid again, the one who was engaged with the world. Then we’d give the phone back and see the difference again.”

Since then, she has replaced her son’s phone with a smartwatch. “It’s been a real game changer,” she added. “He’s talking more with his friends, and it’s actually changed for the rest of the family. We all use our phones less and interact more.”

Understandably, parents have different views on when or why to give their child a smartphone. But it’s becoming impossible to deny the impact they have on a child’s mental health. Smartphones are tools that connect people so it’s essential to have a collective answer to this collective problem. Wait Until 8th is one of the first organizations to promote a healthy way for kids to adapt to technology while empowering parents to make it happen together.

Visit Wait Until 8th's website for more information and to join the 60,000 parents in 50 states who have pledged to wait until at least 8th grade to give their child a smartphone.

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Parenting

When a Patagonia employee breastfed her baby in a meeting her male VP's response was a masterclass in workplace values

Talk about a "family-friendly workplace."

Holly Morissette/LinkedIn

Years after it happened, Patagonia's approach to the "family-friendly workplace" is a whole new level that still deserves our attention - and praise.

The outdoor clothing and gear company has made a name for itself by putting its money where its mouth is. From creating backpacks out of 100% recycled materials to donating their $10 million tax cut to fight climate change to refusing to sell to clients who harm the environment, Patagonia leads by example.

That dedication to principle is clear in its policies for parents who work for them, as evidenced by a 2019 viral post from Holly Morisette, a recruiter at Patagonia.

Morisette wrote on LinkedIn:

"While nursing my baby during a morning meeting the other day after a recent return from maternity leave, our VP (Dean Carter) turned to me and said...'There is no way to measure the ROI on that. But I know it's huge.'

It got me thinking...with the immense gratitude that I have for on-site childcare at Patagonia comes a responsibility to share a 'call to action'. A PSA to tout the extraordinary benefits that come along with not asking employees to make the gut wrenching decision to either leave their jobs or leave their babies. TO HAVE TO LEAVE THEIR JOBS OR LEAVE THEIR BABIES. That perhaps just one person will brave the subject with their employer (big or small) in the hopes that it gets the wheels turning to think differently about how to truly support working families.

That with a bit of creativity, and a whole lot of guts, companies can create a workplace where mothers aren't hiding in broom closets pumping milk, but rather visiting their babies for large doses of love and serotonin before returning to their work and kicking ass.

It's no wonder that Patagonia has 100% retention of moms. Keeping them close to their babies keeps them engaged. And engaged mothers (and fathers!) get stuff done. Thank you, Patagonia, for leading the way. "


Holly Morissette on LinkedIn: "While nursing my baby during a morning meeting the other day after a recent return from maternity leave, our VP (Dean Carter) turned to me and said..."There is no way to measure the ROI on that. But I know it's huge." It got me thinking...with the immense gratitude that I have for on-site childcare at Patagonia comes a responsibility to share a “call to action". A PSA to tout the extraordinary benefits that come along with not asking employees to make the gut wrenching decision to either leave their jobs or leave their babies. TO HAVE TO LEAVE THEIR JOBS OR LEAVE THEIR BABIES. That perhaps just one person will brave the subject with their employer (big or small) in the hopes that it gets the wheels turning to think differently about how to truly support working families. That with a bit of creativity, and a whole lot of guts, companies can create a workplace where mothers aren't hiding in broom closets pumping milk, but rather visiting their babies for large doses of love and serotonin before returning to their work and kicking ass. It's no wonder that Patagonia has 100% retention of moms. Keeping them close to their babies keeps them engaged. And engaged mothers (and fathers!) get stuff done. Thank you, Patagonia, for leading the way. " www.linkedin.com


Just the first eight words of Morisette's post are extraordinary. "While nursing my baby during a morning meeting..."

As if that's totally normal. As if everyone understands that working moms can be much more engaged and efficient in their jobs if they can feed their baby while they go over sales figures. As if the long-held belief that life and work must be completely separate is a construct that deserves to be challenged.

And then the comment from her male colleague about the ROI (Return on Investment) of breastfeeding—witty, considering the time and place, and yet so supportive.

On-site childcare so that parents don't have to choose between leaving their jobs or leaving their babies. Letting life integrate with work so that working families don't have to constantly feel torn in two different directions. Flexibility in meetings and schedules. Allowing for the natural rhythms and needs of breastfeeders. Making childcare as easy and accessible as possible so that employees can be more effective in their jobs.

All of this seems so profoundly logical, it's a wonder that more companies have not figured this out sooner. Clearly, it works. I mean, who has ever heard of a 100% retention rate for mothers?

Patagonia's got it goin' on. Let's hope more companies take their lead.


This article originally appeared on 8.16.19

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People swoon over nerdy married couple describing each other's PhD thesis at Cambridge

The viral video is incredibly romantic, in the most unexpected way.

Photo by Melanie Rosillo Galvan on Unsplash

Nerd love is the best.

When we picture words like "romantic" or "sexy," we don't often conjure up an image of two PhD candidates discussing their theses. But one University of Cambridge couple is turning that notion right on its head with an unlikely demonstration of pure love that has people gushing.

Get ready for the sweetest nerdy love display

Harum Mukhayer and Will Deacon met and got married while pursuing their PhDs at Cambridge, and the university shared a video of them explaining one another's thesis in their respective fields on Instagram. Mukhayer is an International Law PhD graduate at the university's Pembroke College, while Deacon got his PhD in Physics at Sidney Sussex College, and their theses topics could not be more drastically different.

However, their interdisciplinary love is on full display as they each attempt to sum up one another's research. Watch:

The way she was able to put his complex physics thesis into layman's terms and how he accurately described her transboundary research, each while the other looked on admiringly, was a clear display of love and respect. The video was meant to be an announcement from the university that applications for postgraduate degree programs were being accepted, but all people saw was an adorably nerdy love story.

Check out the comments:

"This was one of the most beautiful expressions of love I’ve seen. The way they see each other, hear each other, support and look at each other was so moving."

"See how he's not intimidated?! Very invested. Very intrigued. Very proud. 🥰"

"Does the PhD program at Cambridge come with a partner?"

"This couples therapist LOVES how this couple has clearly been listening to what their partners' research entails and shows respect and pride over it. Congratulations you two. ❤️"

"I’m all for the world class research and facilities etc, but i just want to check does the PhD program at Cambridge come with a partner—like is it an all inclusive package or…? 😂😂😂"

"Oh! To be seen, really seen."


via GIPHY

People loved the couple's "intellectual chemistry"

"Move over Meet Cutes, Meet Smarts has entered the building! The way he looked at her and melted when she named and explained his thesis! Urgh so cute!"

"This kind of mutual respect, support and admiration… the dream 😍"

"Obsessed with this love! What an advert for intellectual chemistry and compatibility 😍😍😍🙏🏾"

"You can see how he fell even MORE in love with her at this moment. This was so sweet."

"Not me smiling sheepishly at my screen.☺️☺️
Love this. Love ALL of it.
Nerdy, intellectual love is the absolute best. I imagine they’d always have lots and lots to talk (and think) about. 🩵☺️💛"


via GIPHY

People are serious about this nerdy brand of love being ideal. Most of us want our partner to take an interest in our passions, at least enough to understand them a bit, even if we don't share them deeply. Add in the intellectual curiosity to actually learn about something outside of your own field and the admiration for one another's academic accomplishments, and it's a match made in higher education heaven.

Though we often see romance portrayed physically or sexually, love can be revealed in all kinds of ways, even intellectually. But couples don't have to be PhD candidates to demonstrate this kind of love and respect for one another. Admiring one another's hard work or passionate hobbies, regardless of what they are, shows love in less-standard but certainly not-less-important way than other displays of affection.

Three cheers for this couple showing how sweet and sexy it can be to love someone's mind as much as their body and soul.

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Popular

'Entitled parent' discovers airline moved their toddler's seat just before flight takes off

Another passenger behaving badly story takes a huge twist.

Photo by Steven Thompson on Unsplash

I took a long Amtrak train trip from Atlanta to Baltimore with my 9-year-old daughter this summer.

As far as I could tell, there was no way to reserve specific seats in coach on our particular train ahead of time. But we arrived as early as we could and, to our delight, were treated to a near empty train. We sat together in a two-person row and had a really nice trip up to Baltimore.

On the way back? We boarded at Union Station and the train, having arrived from New York, was already packed. The conductor told me he would try his best to seat us together but couldn't guarantee it. You should have seen the terror in my daughter's eyes.

It would be a 14-hour overnight train ride. Sitting her next to some stranger that whole time? Absolutely not. No way.

They eventually found us seats across an aisle from each other, which kind of worked, but wasn't ideal. Luckily, the guy I was supposed to sit next on the other side flew into a rage that he wouldn't have a row to himself and stormed off to sit elsewhere, freeing up the row for us.

But for a few horrible minutes, I had become "that dad" desperately asking anyone in the area if they'd be willing to move so we could sit together.

I had become the dreaded entitled parent from all the viral travel stories.

Stories of "entitled parents" desperately trying to get other passengers to switch seats go viral all the time. But a recent thread on Reddit shows why we don't always get the full story.

Description from Reddit of airplane seating snafuReddit

User u/takeme2themtns recently shared a nightmare travel story in the r/Delta subreddit:

"In typical Delta fashion, they just switched up our seats and placed my toddler in a row away from us," they wrote. "Booked three seats ... in comfort plus months ago. Now, several hours before the flight we get notifications that our seats have changed. They put wife and me in exit row seats and the toddler in a window seat a row away."

With no way to fix the seating snafu digitally, the OP would have to rely on the Gate Attendant or even Flight Attendant to make a last-minute change — which would force someone else on the plane to move.

"I’m confident the GA (gate attendant) will take care of it," they wrote, "but it’s still so frustrating that we have to worry about it. I know we see posts like this all the time, but that’s because it happens all the time to people. Delta needs to fix this trashy system."

Another user in the comments wrote to share a similar story:

"I had this happen to me. The check-in person said to talk to the gate.

The gate said to talk to the flight attendant.

The flight attendant told me to ask people to trade seats.

I asked people. People said no. Other passengers started berating me for not planning ahead and saying my lack of planning isn’t their responsibility.

I defended myself by saying I reserved seats months ago and Delta moved me at the last minute. Then passengers started yelling at each other about my situation.

The FA had someone move and I got to sit with my daughter."

The user noted that the situation was chaotic and traumatizing.

These stories are far from rare.


woman carrying baby while sitting on gray seat Photo by Paul Hanaoka on Unsplash

I found another story just like this from a few months ago on the r/United subreddit. The user's family booked seats together only for the system to separate them right before the flight, leaving an 8-year-old to fly seated alone. The flight crew's only solution was to ask other passengers to switch, causing the OP's family to get lots of dirty looks for the duration of the flight.

Having a young child or toddler seated away from you while traveling is just a complete No-Go, for many reasons. But as a dad, leaving a kid of nearly any age to sit alone — even if they're 8 or 10 or 14 — is not acceptable.

It's not just about convenience, it's a huge safety issue. There are plenty of horrifying news stories that support why a parent would do absolutely anything to avoid it.

When we hear these stories, they're almost always framed as the parents being unprepared, lazy, and entitled. But maybe we're missing the point.

boy sitting on plane seat while viewing window Photo by Hanson Lu on Unsplash

A story from January of this year praises a passenger who refused to switch seats with an "entitled dad" as a "hero."

People are fed up with parents asking them to switch out of airline or train seats that they paid good money for. And I don't blame them!

But we need to stop beating each other up and start holding the airlines and other travel companies accountability for putting parents and non-parents into this mess in the first place.

There needs to be a better system for families booking plane and train tickets. When you buy tickets, you have to enter in the ages of the children you're traveling with — so it stands to reason that these mix-ups flat out shouldn't happen!

Families shouldn't have to panic at the gate or on board about this! Other paying passengers shouldn't have to give up their seats!

The good news is that the Department of Transportation has recently gotten involved with a dashboard of which airlines guarantee family seating at no additional cost.

The DOT is looking to even make it illegal to for airlines to charge parents and children fees to sit together. Parents and children under 13 would be required to be seated side by side or immediately adjacent, and if not, they'd get a full refund or free rebooking — it's known as the Families Fly Together Act.

Traveling in 2024 is stressful enough, from seat changes to unruly passengers to high numbers of cancelled flights.

Seating kids and parents together seems like one small problem we should be able to solve.

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Coldplay surprises couple by letting their wedding be the world premiere of a new song

The couple reached out on Twitter just two days before their big day—and it paid off big time.

Raph_PH/Wikipedia, @coldplay/X

They made this couple's dream come true.

Imagine being able to tell everyone that your wedding also happened to be the world premiere of a song from an intentionally beloved band. Talk about an awesome flex.

These bragging rights belong to Paul and Céline Delcloy—all because they asked nicely, by the way.

Here’s what went down.

On Sept 2, Chris Martin, rockstar frontman for Coldplay, played a sneak preview of "All My Love,” a track which will be featured on the band's upcoming new album, “Moon Music, set to be released on Oct. 4.

Coldplay then shared the clip onto X, along with the caption "All My Love. Last song of the summer ❤️,” as this would be the last live concert before “Moon Music” would debut.

Paul and Céline, both huge Coldplay fans, went out on a limb and reached out to Coldplay's manager and “fifth member”, Phil Harvey, on X on Sept. 5, asking if "All My Love" could be the first dance at their wedding, coming up in only two days time.

"We’re getting married in 2 days, please Phil do your magic and let us dance [to] All My Love 😭😭😭,” read the tweet.

In addition, the couple also re-shared a photo previously posted on X about a month ago, where they’re holding a sign that reads, "Would you come and play 'All Our Love' [for] our wedding first dance?"


As fate would have it, Harvey not only saw the tweet, but replied, “Congratulations Paul! Let me see what I can do.” And next thing you know, Paul and Céline share another video—this time from their wedding, sharing their first dance to the sought after track.

In gratitude, Paul wrote:

“We had a world premiere of All My Love. We cried a lot, this music is meaningful for us, Céline has been living with illness for so many years, I lost my dad 4 years ago, we both supported each other in so many situations. Thank you @coldplay, We are so proud and fulfilled that you have accepted this.”

Coldplay would later share the Delcloys' dance video on their own X account, saying, "Congratulations, Céline and Paul 💕 💕. We wish you a lifetime of love, laughter and happiness." The message was signed with "Love c, g, w, j & p," representing band members Martin, Guy Berryman, Will Champion and Jonny Buckland, along with Harvey.

In an exclusive interview with People, the newlyweds shared why having a Coldplay track for their wedding dance felt so important, as their music held deep meaning in their relationship.

They reminisced about attending their first Coldplay concert together seven years ago, which “sparked a journey that took us across Europe to see the band seven times during the Music of the Spheres world tour.”

“All My Love,” is particularly meaningful, as the “lyrics echo the hardships we endured but also the power of love between us, making the song deeply meaningful to us." After hearing it in Athens, the track became the couple’s “anthem” as they dealt with challenges like Céline's Crohn's disease and the loss of Paul’s father.

Why people love Coldplay

Of course, the Delcloys aren’t the only folks who hold a special place in their heart for Coldplay. Fans appreciate the band’s musicianship, emotional lyrics, and the way their music bring people together, particularly at live concerts.

But not only that, they practice being kind humans—from working with KultureCity to make their shows accessible to deaf, hard-of-hearing or visually impaired fans, to offering $20 concert tickets to those who can’t pay the normal prices, to acknowledge Indigenous land, to employing more 40 women in areas from carpentry to personal security for their 2024 tour.

Plus, Coldplay are touted as sustainability pioneers, with their unprecedented “environmentally conscious touring” initiative and plan to offer their “Moon Music” album in multiple formats, including vinyl made from recycled plastic bottles.

Even if you aren’t the biggest Coldplay fan like Paul and Céline, you gotta appreciate what they're doing to make a real positive impact. Both in their fans’ lives, and around the world.

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Democracy

Ohio dad begs politicians not to use his son's death to demonize Haitian migrants

Nathan Clark didn't mince words at a city commission meeting.

Photo by chris robert on Unsplash

11-year-old Aiden Clark was killed in a school bus accident in August of 2023.

Stoking fear about immigrants for political gain is nothing new, but a particularly heinous wave of fear-mongering over Haitian immigrants in Ohio has prompted one grieving family to speak out in a powerful way.

The parents of 11-year-old Aiden Clark, who was killed in a school bus accident in August of 2023, stood together at the podium at a Springfield City Commission meeting on September 10, 2024, begging people to stop invoking their son's name to spread hate. The driver of the minivan, 36-year-old Haitian immigrant Hermanio Joseph, crossed the centerline, colliding with the school bus carrying Aiden and around 50 other students and causing the crash. Aiden was killed and around 20 other students were injured in the accident.

Aiden Clark's father says he wasn't murdered

Along with spreading unfounded accusations of Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio, stealing and eating pets, some Republican politicians have used Aiden's death to support anti-immigrant rhetoric. Even vice presidential candidate JD Vance posted on X that "a child was murdered by a Haitian migrant," appearing to refer to the accident that killed Aiden.

"My son, Aiden Clark, was not murdered," Aiden's father, Nathan Clark, said at the meeting. "He was accidentally killed by an immigrant from Haiti. This tragedy is felt all over this community, this state and even the nation. But don’t spin this towards hate."

Clark didn't mince words sharing his feelings about how "reprehensible" it is that people would use his son's death as "a political tool."

"You know, I wish that my son, Aiden Clark, was killed by a 60-year-old white man. I bet you never thought anyone would ever say something so blunt. But if that guy killed my 11-year-old son, the incessant group of hate-spewing people would leave us alone," Clark said.

"The last thing that we need is to have the worst day of our lives violently and constantly shoved in our faces. But even that’s not good enough for them," he continued. "They take it one step further. They make it seem as though our wonderful Aiden appreciates your hate. That we should follow their hate. And look what you’ve done to us. We have to get up here and beg them to stop."

Nathan clark asks people to "live like Aiden"

Clark pointed to specific politicians who have invoked his son's name "for political gain" and called for such rhetoric to end.

"This needs to stop now," he said. "They can vomit all the hate they want about illegal immigrants, the border crisis, and even untrue claims about fluffy pets being ravaged and eaten by community members. However, they are not allowed, nor have they ever been allowed, to mention Aiden Clark from Springfield, Ohio. I will listen to them one more time to hear their apologies."

Clark said that Aiden "researched different cultures to better appreciate and understand people he interacted with." He said he told his son he would try to make a difference in his honor and invited people to "live like Aiden."

"In order to live like Aiden, you need to accept everyone," he said. "Choose to shine. Make the difference. Lead the way and be the inspiration. What many people in this community and state and nation are doing is the opposite of what you should be doing."

Springfield, Ohio, has seen an influx of Haitian immigrants over the past several years, with approximately 15,000 Haitians making their way to work in the struggling industrial town of nearly 60,000. The swift population growth has come with growing pains including rising rents due to increased demand and an increase in welfare and federal assistance. But contrary to the fear-mongering rhetoric, violent crime and property crime have not increased, according to Reuters.

Others in Springfield speak out against hate for Haitian migrants

The Clarks are not the only Springfield residents to come to the defense of Haitian immigrants in the wake of hateful allegations about them. Springfield metal factory owner Jamie McGregor told PBS NewsHour that he has hired 30 Haitians, about 10% of his workforce, and he wished he had 30 more.

"Our Haitian associates come to work every day," McGregor said. "They don't have a drug problem. They'll stay at their machine, they'll achieve their numbers. They are here to work."

The United Farm Workers labor union also spoke out about the baseless, disgusting allegations against Haitian migrant workers in a post on X.

"We organize with Haitian-origin farm workers in NY. They’re as American as the apple pie their work makes possible, but right wing racists are spreading dehumanizing lies. Haitians are not eating pets. They’re feeding America. The anti-Haitian bigotry we’re seeing is repulsive," the union wrote. "(Cannot believe this is something we need to say.)" they added.

And yet, the rumors about the Haitian population in Springfield persist in right-wing circles on social media.To be extra clear, a spokesperson for the Springfield police issued a statement saying, "In response to recent rumors alleging criminal activity by the immigrant population in our city, we wish to clarify that there have been no credible reports or specific claims of pets being harmed, injured or abused by individuals within the immigrant community."

Unfortunately, using fear and prejudice against immigrants—or anyone easily deemed an "other"—has proven for decades to be an effective political strategy. Fueling our most primal instincts of self-preservation and fear of the unknown is the playbook dictators and autocrats have used time and again to rise to power and successfully commit atrocities. Especially when coupled with economic anxiety and times of uncertainty, scapegoating immigrants works. It may be an unjust and hateful strategy, but it works.

The more voices like Nathan Clark and Jamie McGregor and the United Farm Workers we have to counter the purposeful fear-mongering about specific populations, the better. There are legitimate conversations to be had about managing immigration and ensuring migration is handled in a sustainable way, but equating a car accident with murder and claiming without evidence that people are eating people's pets are not it.

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