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Audrey Plaza's 'gorge' analogy of grief after her husband's suicide is resonating with people

People who've been through a tragic loss are feeling seen in her interview with Amy Poehler.

Images via Wikipedia/Xfranksun, Joe Mabel

Aubrey Plaza opens up on her husband Jeff Baena's death.

Actress Aubrey Plaza gave fans a heartfelt update on her grief journey seven months after losing her husband Jeff Baena to suicide. Plaza, 41, reunited with her iconic Parks and Recreation co-star Amy Poehler on her Good Hang podcast, where she opened up on life and grieving since her husband passed on Jan. 3, 2025.

In an emotional clip, Poehler gently opens the conversation with Plaza to share how she is doing. "To just, to get it out of the way. People want to see you and see how you are. They love you," she says, as she extends her hand out to Plaza to hold with a reassuring "I know" as they clasp hands. As she does, Plaza lets out some uncomfortable laughs, as Poehler continues. "They love you and they want to see you."

Poehler adds, "So, you've had this terrible, tragic year. You lost your husband. You've been dealing with that, and you've been looking for all different ways in which to feel and find support. And on behalf of all the people who feel like they know you and the people who do know you, how are you feeling today?"

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Plaza openly responds, petting her dog Frankie who joined her for the interview. "I mean right in this very present moment I feel happy to be with you. Overall I'm here and I'm functioning, and I feel really grateful to be moving through the world," she says.

She continued, "I think I'm okay. But you know, it's like a daily struggle, obviously."

She goes on to explain how grief has impacted her with a "really dumb analogy." "It was a joke at a certain point, but I actually mean it. Did you see that move The Gorge?" she asks Poehler, who explains its an alien movie starring actor Miles Teller.

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"In the movie there's like a cliff on one side and a cliff on the other side, and then there's a gorge in-between and it's filled with like these monster people that are trying to get them. And I swear when I watched it, I was like, 'That feels like what my grief is like'," Plaza shared. "Or what grief could be like."

She continued, "It's like at all times there's a giant ocean of just awfulness that's like right there and I can see it. And sometimes I just wanna like dive into it and just be in it. And then sometimes I just look at it. And then sometimes I just try to get away from it. But it's always there. It's just always there."

Plaza's beautiful description of grief was praised by fans who applauded not just her openness, but her relatable explanation. "💯 The way she described how grief is always there (in different forms) resonates so much," one wrote. Another shared, "Her self soothing with petting the animal under the desk (I assume) is so relatable."

Fans also opened up about how they were inspired by her honesty. "Agreed. About two years ago, I lost my husband to suicide when I was 29 and he was 30. It’s a terrible experience I would not wish on my worst enemy, and I’m so sad Aubrey Plaza is going through this as well. It’s an isolating experience not many can relate to and her being open makes me feel seen and less alone," another commented.

Another added, "That’s a great description of grief actually. The way she responded to the question at the beginning really resonated with me. When I lost my mom i wasn’t devastated all the time but also I wasn’t exactly doing good inside. So when asked, I would just try to answer how i felt at that very moment because I couldn’t go into how I was really feeling on the inside. And « I’m functioning » was a common answer for me."

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'Let them be themselves': Mark Cuban’s parenting advice is surprisingly simple

Every parent should hear this.

Credit: Gage Skidmore, Flickr

Mark Cuban's estimated net worth is $5.7 billion, but he still cares about raising children with a strong work ethic.

When it comes to billionaire parenting, one thinks of pouting children, upset that their pony’s coat isn’t the right color. Or jam-packed schedules and elite boarding schools, where there are fancy plaid uniforms and everyone speaks three-to-four languages, minimum. But sometimes, the best advice comes in the simplest form, wisdom that Mark Cuban, the billionaire entrepreneur and former Shark Tank investor seems understand well.

During a recent appearance on the Your Mom’s House podcast, Cuban opened up about how he and his wife, Tiffany Stewart, tried to raise their children somewhat “normally,” despite the glaring fame, fortune, and pressure that comes with being a person like Mark. With an estimated net worth of $5.7 billion, it’d be more than easy for him to outsource parenting duties to hired professionals, or to prescribe his children a 65-year plan drawn up before they were even born. However, he explains that he and his wife decided to foster one essential trait: “Everything’s changing so rapidly, from a technological perspective, just the world in general. So, you know, just be curious,” he says. “That’s what I try to get them to do, right? Be curious so that you always want to learn something, and figure things out.”


Curiosity is overlooked as a trait to cultivate in children, yet research has shown that curiosity is an incredibly powerful trait, one that impacts learning, creativity, and success. A study conducted in 2011 found that curiosity, or a “hungry mind” is just as useful for predicting academic performance in children as intelligence and effort, writing, “Our results highlight that a “hungry mind” is a core determinant of individual differences in academic achievement.”

“And everything’s changing so rapidly—from a technology perspective, just the world in general. So just, you know, be curious. That’s what I try to get them to do, right? Be curious so that you always want to learn something, and figure things out. The more knowledge you have, the more—not power, but the more capabilities you have, and the more options are available to you.”

It even makes us feel good: our brains release dopamine and other feel-good chemicals when we encounter new experiences, places, ideas, and people. Science also shows that curiosity is associated with higher levels of positive emotions, a higher satisfaction with life, lower levels of anxiety, and greater psychological well-being.


via GIPHY


How to raise curious kids in four key principles

However, for children, embracing uncertainty and stepping out of their comfort zones might feel scary. Which is why Cuban and his wife made curiosity a high priority when raising their kids. Here are four strategies for nurturing this trait in children—and with some luck, successful adults will appear on the other end.


child, curiosity, exploration, freedom, parenting"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back." Credit: Justin Peterson on Unsplash

  1. Don’t pressure them to choose careers too early. Despite society’s love of asking children “So, what do you want to be when you grow up?” Cuban strongly believes that expecting children to know their life’s calling at 18 or even 22 is outdated and unrealistic. “I was talking to one of my kids about college the other day, and it’s like, you don’t have to know what you’re going to be when you grow up,” he shared. “I don’t think any kid should be under the pressure at 18 or 22, when they graduate from college, to know exactly what they’re going to do.”
  2. Knowledge is power. One of the most common adages in the book, but for Cuban, it was essential that his children learned that curiosity leads to real-life skills, abilities, and talents, unlike control. “The more knowledge you have, the more—not power, but the more capabilities you have, and the more options are available to you,” he explained.
  3. Change is the only constant. Get used to it. As someone whose made billions from multiple side projects, investments, and major sports team ownership, Cuban understands better than most that life doesn’t always follow a straight and narrow path. Rather than clinging to the ways things were, Cuban encourages parents to embrace the rapidly changing world we live in. Children who are taught to adapt, pivot, and evolve will be better suited in a world where entirely new fields of work emerge constantly–and will be better equipped than their peers to handle the job market’s volatility.
  4. Let them decide their own path. Ensuring their children had the freedom to explore and discover their own interests was of the utmost importance to Cuban. Other parents might want to project an agenda onto their children, reflecting their own insecurities or need for reassurance that they’ve raised a “successful kid.” And while letting go of the reins may be scary for parents, it will be well worth it: “I want them to go on their own path,” Cuban says. “Whatever it might be, I want them to be themselves. I don’t want them to be Mark Cuban’s kid for their entire lives.”

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It’s clear from the interview that Cuban and his wife recognized the uniqueness and the scale of their position. At one point, when talking about his kids' future inheritances, he says, “I’ve watched Succession. I don’t want it to be like that.” And while he, like any other parent, wants their child to do well and to succeed in life, when it’s all said and done, he really just loves being a father. “My favorite word in the world is 'Dad,’” he says, smiling.

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Therapist explains his controversial theory: That it's normal to 'hate' your spouse

He also explains one thing everyone gets wrong when their partner is angry at them.

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Is it normal to hate your spouse, even in brief moments?

Marriage is hard. On your wedding day, you "know" it will be hard, and people tell you it will be hard, but you don't really fully understand. Not until you're years deep and navigating a joint life with another human being who has their own wants, desires, emotions, thoughts, and opinions.

Some people believe it's so hard because human beings aren't biologically wired for monogamy. Others believe we just don't do a good enough job of preparing ourselves for the more difficult aspects of lifelong partnership, leading to the notoriously high divorce rate.

A renowned couple's therapist named Terrence Real has been grabbing headlines with his somewhat controversial idea that could help save many relationships. He calls it "normal marital hatred."


marriage, couples, couples therapy, marriage advice, marriage tips, couples counseling, psychologist, therapist, divorceOnce the wedding day has come and gone, things get real. Photo by freestocks on Unsplash

Real was recently on the Tim Ferris Podcast, where he elaborated on what he believes is a critically under-discussed aspect of relationships:.

“The essential rhythm of all relationships is harmony, disharmony, and repair," he says. "Closeness, disruption, and a return to closeness. That's where the skills come in, how to move from disruption to repair. Our culture doesn't teach it."

Real says every couple will have moments, days, or even longer stretches of dissatisfaction, and that those feelings can be much more powerful than you might think.

“So, here's what I wanna say about disharmony: It hurts, it's dark. You can really, really feel like, 'What the hell did I get myself into? This is such a disappointment.’ And guess what? Your partner's probably feeling that about you too.”

His concept of normal marital hatred is fascinating. It takes a shocking idea, that you could "hate" your partner, and puts it right there next to the word "normal." Internalizing the idea might seem pretty bleak to young people getting ready to settle down, but Real doesn't want people to panic or bail rather than sticking it out. Again, he says it's completely normal.

“I talk about normal marital hatred when you're in that dark phase. You hate your partner, that's okay. It's part of the deal for many of it. I've been going around the world talking about normal marital hatred for, oh my god, what? 30 years. ... It's okay, kids — don't sweat it. You can get through it. It's normal. Relax.”

Watch the whole clip here:


@timferriss

Therapist Terry Real on Normal Marital Hatred. (From my brand-new interview with Terry.) #couples #therapy

Commenters were, for the most part, in strong agreement with Real's blunt assessment.

"Hatred disappears when a person able to hold 2 truths simultaneously: I love you, I don’t like you now. Dialectical thinking"

"When people stop romanticizing relationships and realize you're relating to another autonomous human being, it's easier to understand, relate, love and also forgive."

"This is such an important topic that it's not talked about enough. Marriage is not some fairytale can't run away when you hate your partner because in a week you'll probably love them again."

"Hatred is a pretty strong word but I appreciate the concept behind the theory. My theory is space and grace. Grant each other a little space to cool down but the grace to come back and repair."

Others wondered if the term 'hatred' was really accurate, or maybe just a gimmick to make the concept more controversial and marketable:

"To me, hatred is too strong a word. I don’t hate my spouse. I often times do not like him, but I always love him. 33 years of a solid, loving marriage."

"Hatred is a brutal way to put it. Wrong word."

"I have NEVER hated my late husband of 16 years or my partner of 4 years! I have been utterly pissed at both hurt by them unclear if I can make it another day through xyz but not hate never hate"

It all begs the question: What are feelings of hatred, really?


marriage, couples, couples therapy, marriage advice, marriage tips, couples counseling, psychologist, therapist, divorceIt's normal to be upset at or even dislike your partner sometimes. Is it really normal to hate them? Photo by Mattia on Unsplash

Not to be that guy, but Merriam-Webster defines hatred as: "Extreme dislike or disgust...ill will or resentment ... prejudiced hostility or animosity"

That sounds like a dangerous combination of feelings to feel toward your partner! Dislike or disgust? Maybe, in brief doses. But many experts say that resentment and animosity are very close cousins of the infamous Four Horsemen, or communication styles that can be predictive of divorce. The Four Horsemen are criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling. The Gottman Institute found that when these patterns show up regularly, even in just a single conversation, it often spells doom for the couple.

However, Real emphasizes that these negative feelings we might get toward our partner (the so-called hatred) are usually temporary, even appearing for just a brief moment or two.

Regardless of the terminology, Real is right about one thing: Normal, healthy marriages will have conflict and moments where partners don't like each other very much. Navigating them successfully is key.

Luckily, he has advice for that, too.

“In normal circumstances, if you’re unhappy with me, that is not the time for me to talk to you about how unhappy I am with you,” he said. “Everybody gets that wrong.”

In other words, these moments of dislike/hatred/disagreement/or whatever you want it call it should be opportunities for partners to listen to each other and not escalate the conflict into a power struggle. They are opportunities for better communication and for partners to better learn how to meet each other's needs.

Feeling that hatred is not the problem. Feeding it and allowing it to grow is what makes it really dangerous.

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Julia Louis-Dreyfus is listening to older women, and you should too

Her podcast, Wiser Than Me, is an absolute delight.

In 2015, Comedy Central premiered “one of the greatest sketches in television history,” according to Variety. The ingenious, gutsy satire starts with Tina Fey, Patricia Arquette, and Amy Schumer picnicking together in the middle of an idyllic field. It’s a momentous day: they’ve gathered to celebrate their great friend and colleague, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. You see, it’s her last f*ckable day. A whip-smart satire about Hollywood's double standard and aging, it stars an A-list ensemble of the industry's wittiest actors who absolutely skewer and outright disprove the belief that youth should be the ultimate prize. Basically, The Substance, just a decade earlier.

Now, Louis-Dreyfus is on a mission to uplift and celebrate the voices of the many iconic women who have come before her. On her podcast, Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus (launched in 2023 by Lemonada Media), she champions the women whose shoulders she has stood on; they are the pioneers who have inspired millions and forever altered the fabric of society through the use of their gifts, talent, and hard work. Most need no introduction, with guests including Jane Fonda, Patti Smith, Isabel Allende, Ina Garten, Billie Jean King, and Gloria Steinem, among others. Guided endearingly by their host, Louis-Dreyfus, these women answer every question and avoid nothing, all while remaining kind, observant, and matter-of-fact. They are, as JLD says, "wiser than her." And it doesn't take a genius to realize that we could all benefit from hearing what these incredible women have to say.


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