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Frustrated dad says doctors treating men as 'clueless dads' needs to end

"I should ask mom, Dads never know."

Photo credit: Canva

It's assumed that dads don't know anything about their kids.

We've come a long way toward gender equality in the past century, but there's still a lot of room for improvement, especially when it comes to shared parenting roles.

Even in households where couples try for equitable distribution of responsibilities, one parent generally ends up as the "default parent"—the one who keeps track of things like clothing sizes and routine appointments and the one people look to first when they need to ask a question. Most of the time, moms are viewed as the default parent, whether or not that's actually the reality. And on the flip side of that, dads are often assumed to be disengaged and clueless about their kids.

A story shared by a dad on Reddit who shared a story about being dismissed by doctors during an emergency room visit highlights this issue:

"Went to the emergency with my son and wife, he had an emergency food allergic reaction. Dr comes in and looks at us both and says 'Mom come out and fill this paperwork, probably know more than Dad.' While my wife was out of the room filling out paperwork a different Dr came up with a medical wristband and asked me to check if the info was correct. Before I could finish checking the spelling of his name he pulled it back stating 'I should ask mom, Dads never know.' I do know everything though."

His frustration is understandable. This is a dad who is involved, engaged and knowledgeable about his kids. It's not okay for someone to just assume he wouldn't know anything. At the same time, there's a reason for the assumption, as unjust as it feels for this father.

Medical professionals explained that dads not knowing their kids' information is a genuine problem

For responsible dads, this may be a hard pill to swallow, but according to doctors, nurses and other medical professionals, the stereotype of the clueless dad is alarmingly close to reality. A lot of dads don't know their kids' birth dates, full name spelling or important health information like allergies. In fact, some doctors shared that a surprising number of men don't even know anything about their own health history or conditions, instead relying on their wives to keep track of those things.

"I work in a medical field. I never assume the father knows nothing and I’ve met many fathers who were involved and knew all the relevant information. But I’ve also met fathers who genuinely didn’t know their kid’s birthday or when their last check up was or if they had any allergies. I’ve also met fathers who looked at me like I was mad for expecting them to know this. I’ve only ever met one mother like that."

"ER nurse here. Although it's unacceptable for them to assume dad is clueless, I understand why they do it. I can't tell you how many kids I've checked in with dad who doesn't even know their birthday, how old they are, or why they even brought them in. On the other hand, mom knows everything about the kid 99.9% of the time. That being said, I would never just dismiss dad right to his face. That's very rude."

"I guess you’d be surprised how many dads don’t know the answers to basic medical questions like DOB, allergies, height, weight. It’s super common, and yes, quite disheartening."

man looking confusedApparently a lot of dads don't know much of their kids' basic info.Photo credit: Canva

"I recently started working in healthcare and it is shocking. I expected that sort of disinterest from older, more traditional parents, but they’re my age or younger. I just falsely believed that our generation would be better about stuff like that."

"When any parent (almost always dad) doesn’t know the answer to something like a birthday or medical complaint, I don’t just laugh it off like some of my coworkers do. I want them to look me right in the eye and tell me that they don’t remember their kid’s birthday. I’m polite about it, but I’m certainly not saying 'it’s okay, don’t worry about it.' They should know."

"Same. I've also had male patients who have no clue on what's going on with themselves health wise and just straight up tell me to ask their wife.

They have zero clue on what meds they are taking, what those meds are for, what surgeries they've had in the past or why... it's like they don't think this information is important enough for them to know? So of course these guys wouldn't be able to tell you a thing about their own kids when they nothing about their own health. There are men who aren't this way of course. But too goddamn many of them have zero pertinent information in their skulls."

"The stereotype doesn't exist for no reason. I encountered so many dads who don't know their kid's DOB, social, allergies, medical history, immunizations, medications, school info, teachers, daily habits (like bedtime or diet), and so on.

Even worse they would sometimes lie or minimize rather than admit they don't know.

Sometimes they would eventually say stuff like 'Well the doctors said it's asthma but I think he just doesn't like running for sports' or 'He used to have some weird allergy thing, I don't know what it was, but it's better now' and the wife would shout 'YEAH IT'S BETTER BECAUSE HE TAKES 6 PILLS A DAY FOR IT.' I rarely encountered this behavior with mothers.

Sorry you were judged based on the actions of others. That sucks and it's not fair. Doctors have to be very pragmatic though and they will cut to the most reliable source of info, which is usually mom."

It's not just ignorant dads who perpetuate the problem.

Men definitely need to step up their game here, but that's not the only change that needs to happen. Society's low expectations and assumptions that moms are the only ones in the know also need to shift so that dads who do step up aren't fighting an uphill battle of their own.

"What's frustrating is that people essentially help to make the stereotype true when they default to the mom for things. My wife tends to know better about what's going on with the kids at school and their extracurricular activities, but it's because teachers/staff/whoever will prefer to reach out to her about things first, and maybe sometimes I'll be included in an email here and there. Even when my name has been listed first on their contact info, my wife is the first choice to contact about most anything…

dad with child at doctorNot all dads are clueless about their kids, however.Photo credit: Canva

"And you know what? My wife hates it that she's the one always being contacted about everything. That's why we usually list me first or as the primary contact whenever they want parent contact information. 95% of the time, they still default to mom. I'm not stupid and aloof. My wife isn't always available to read emails and respond to things in a timely manner. She doesn't want to always be available. I don't want to always be available either, but I'm available the vast majority of the time."

"My husband is a stay at home dad. When the kid was in public school we had him as contact. Even called and had them make sure they noted it. They still always would call me first.""I'm a dad who generally knows more about the children in these situations than the mom, so I completely get the frustration. It’s prejudice, pure and simple. And I dislike the dads that helped establish that stereotype. My dad didn’t fit the stereotype either."

"My husband was a stay at home dad when our kids were younger, everyone knew (school, other parents), but still they always tried to reach me first if e.g one of the kids was sick and had to be picked up, to arrange for playdates and so on. 'Thanks, let me try and reach husband because I'm at work and at least 1hr drive away, I can't really speak to what he can/can't do right now.'

Will admit that sometimes I do the exact same with other moms in similar positions, even though I'm aware, ugh. Typical gender role expectations are so ingrained into all of us somehow, even if we don't like it ourselves. I hope the next generation will be less stuck in their expectations."

Should we celebrate dads who actually keep track of their kids' basic info? For now, yes.

It may seem silly to praise dads for something as basic as knowing their own kids' birthday, but considering how many stories of clueless dads were in that thread, it seems to be warranted. Having low expectations and complaining about them doesn't seem to help, so maybe celebrating dads who defy the stereotype will help raise the standard.

"See the glass as half full—as a Dad (I am), if you have even the first clue about any of this stuff you get a gold star for trying when, in the exact same circumstances, they’d probably be calling CPS on the mom. And if you meet the 'mom' standard, you’re on your way to the Nobel Prize for Dadding."

"Dad's like you are amazing. My dad was The Dad. He bought me pads and tampons when needed. He knew when I needed a break from my mom and brothers. He would take me out of school to go fishing or hunting. He was the first person to hold his grandson, and he cut his umbilical cord. He made many mistakes but being my father is not one of them.

My father became my dad when I was 3 years old. He is my example of what a man and father should be."

Finally, someone summed up the gist of the issue: "Nobody wins in the patriarchy." Not moms, not dads, not kids. So kudos to the original poster for pointing out an unfair prejudice, the commenters who explained where it comes from and everyone working to change the status quo. Hopefully conversations like this will help us make more progress on that front.

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Woman sparks dialogue after saying she doesn't take advice from men no matter how successful

"I tend to take their advice with a grain of salt," says Paige Connell.

Courtesy of Paige Connell

Woman says she doesn't take advice from men.

Being a woman comes with certain expectations, no matter where in the world you live. Becoming a mother adds another layer to those expectations, with traditional society often not considering the impact on the woman experiencing that shift. For instance, many women work outside of the home and are still expected to be the one who figures out which childcare center would be best.

Women are also often expected to put their careers on hold to stay at home if it's decided that outside childcare isn't feasible. Sure, some dads may do the heavy lifting in this area, but that's not a societally expected thing. Because these things are typically expected of women, men don't generally have to consider many of the logistics of children if they're partnered with a woman.

Paige Connell sparked a conversation when she shared on social media that she doesn't take advice from men, even if it's their job. On the surface that sounds harsh, even though she clarifies that she considers the advice but takes it with a big grain of salt, and her reasoning involves the invisible labor aspect.

"I do not tend to take a lot of advice from men, even the most successful men. And I mean advice in the form of self-help books, podcasts from successful men or just men in general. I tend to take their advice with a grain of salt because I do not think it is applicable to women and mothers in particular," Connell share before revealing her reasoning.

In the video she shares that she was recently listening to "The Diary of a CEO" podcast where the man talked about all the risks he took, including moving from Connecticut where his young child and ex-girlfriend live to New York. Connell pointed out through the entire episode detailing his risks and upward mobility, he never mentioned his child, which caused her to surmise that it was because childcare concerns weren't a part of his journey.


@sheisapaigeturner I do not often take advice from men, even the most successful of men, because the common thread is usually that they were able to become successful, because there was a woman standing beside them, or behind them, supporting them. Without acknowledging this, the advice means very little because women often don’t have men standing besides them, or behind them to support them. #caseyneistat #diaryofaceo #millennialmom #workingmom #wfhmom #corporatemom #successfulwomen ♬ original sound - Paige


She continued explaining how the burden of childcare tends to fall on women, working and nonworking, allowing the male parent to be free to corporate climb uninhibited by the worry. Connell shares that she prefers to listen to professionally successful moms because they share the help needed with childcare and how they navigated these spaces being the default parent. Others agreed to much of what she was saying.

"I came to a similar conclusion…I have read quite a few books of men going on their 'hero’s journey' where they did all these extravagant endeavors and eventually found success or enlightenment. But nothing about how a mother deep in the trenches of child raising is the [true] hero’s journey. Motherhood can chew you up and spit you out. A mother dies a million deaths and finds strength to continue to show up for her child day and night. Motherhood changes and refines us. No mother goes unchanged after motherhood. It is late nights and isolation. The flames of motherhood, the true hero’s journey," one person revealed, describing her own experience of realization.

"I love that you talk about it. Also all the so called geniuses, poets, writers, great personalities were able to accomplish all they did because their wives babysat their 8 kids at that time," someone else sighed in frustration.

"Couldn’t agree more. It’s the equivalent of men being able to work late, work weekends, put in the face time, to get ahead - whilst someone else is looking after their children," another wrote.

"I remember reading one comment in the daily routine of a successful writer. He had four kids and yet he could write for 6 hours daily during the day. Never once mentions his household manager, cook, cleaner, nanny—his wife," a commenter pointed out.

What do you think? Should more women be talking about this reality when it comes to the success of their male partners?

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Feel like a nag? Expert shares how couples can beat the 'nag paradox' and work together.

"You’re not a nag for wanting partnership."

via Laura Danger (used with permission) and RDNE Stock Project/Pexels

Domestic labor expert, Laura Danger explains how to beat the 'nag paradox'.

Is there one person in your household who makes most of the domestic decisions and then delegates tasks to a support member? If so, then you’re probably familiar with the “nag paradox,” even if you’ve never heard it explained that way.

More often than not, in heterosexual relationships, wives carry the domestic mental load and the husband is a support member taking orders. Eventually, this dynamic can become toxic when the wife has to tell the husband repeatedly to do a task, or it isn’t accomplished to her liking.

This can leave the wife feeling rejected and vulnerable. It can also make the husband feel criticized, so he gets defensive and calls his wife a nag.

Laura Danger, a mother of two in Chicago, Illinois, is a licensed educator, certified coach, and content creator who counsels couples on emotional labor and explains the origins of this problem.

"Women are more likely to have grown up facing the pressure to perform household tasks than men," she told Upworthy. "There's a lot of cultural messaging about how women are naturally better at managing the household. The creep of imbalance isn't always an active or malicious choice. Household inequity is the norm in our society, and we've been taught that list-making and taking direction is the way to solve it, rather than collaborating."

She recently released a video that perfectly explains this paradox and how it affects partners differently.

What is the Nag Paradox?youtu.be

"The nag paradox is that very tricky and very common household dynamic where one person manages more of the mental load and is making more of the decisions around the logistics of the household," Danger explains. "And the other person is playing a support role, or is in a position of taking directions, or only giving periodic feedback."

She continues to say that the nag paradox is a “trap” because the person in charge of the decision-making process is attempting to connect with their partner, who may get defensive from being told what to do or critiqued for their performance. “The idea of nagging is that somebody’s upset about something that doesn’t matter. Domestic labor matters. Connecting with your partner matters. You’re not a nag for wanting partnership,” she says in the video.

She adds that a big problem with the nag paradox is that it can easily lead to two dangerous behaviors, “criticism” and “defensiveness,” known by influential psychologist John Gottman as the 2 of the Four Horsemen, or behaviors that can lead to the end of a relationship.

“It’s a setup for both people because, after a while, you don’t want to be vulnerable,” Danger continues. “You don’t want to open yourself up to that feeling of ‘I can’t do anything right’ … and the other person is saying, ‘I feel like I’m constantly being rejected.’”



So, how do couples overcome the paradox? On her blog, Danger says it’s all about taking time to connect and both partners understanding that domestic labor is a serious issue.

“Meet weekly and use this time to set standards, trade tasks and take your household seriously,” Danger wrote. “The resentment of one person managing more of the mental load, making more decisions and being put into the position of delegating, making decisions and giving guidance can be solved by doing the opposite! Work together. Be open and curious! You’re partners! Clear communication and some preventative care.”

She shared an instance where a couple she worked with broke the cycle by working together and communicating clearly.

"One couple I worked with had one partner who had a high-stress job that kept them away from home for long hours, and the other stayed home with their two kids. The breadwinner felt helpless when they came home and tried to help because it never felt like it was enough," she told Upworthy. "The stay-at-home parent felt alone in decision-making and felt like they were pestering their spouse. They broke the cycle by deciding a few tasks that the breadwinner's spouse could jump in and handle without feedback and agreed on expectations. Then, the stay-at-home parent stepped back and trusted the other to do what they committed to."

"They created a list of favorite meals, shopped for the kids' clothes online and planned their annual trip together," she continued. "Finding opportunities to make decisions together as a team and getting clear on expectations limited the frequency of one telling the other what to do. They would never get to an equal split, but their resentment broke down when they traded the nag paradox for collaboration."

Smoothing over resentment and building a relationship where both partners work together can be challenging, but Danger tells Today.com that it’s worth the effort.

"If you're already emotionally or mentally exhausted, it can feel like too big a battle to wage,” she said. “But it is worth it! If you want to have a relationship that's better or more balanced in the long run, it's worth doing."

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Dad shares why he joins in on overnight baby shifts even though his wife is on leave

“I have no idea why we are still having this argument.”

@professorneil/TikTok

A father pulling his weight shouldn't be considered "helping."

Yes, we’ve come a long way regarding gender equality. But if there’s any proof that we’ve still got a long way to go, look no further than the attitudes many still have when it comes to parenting roles.

Many still consider a father as “helping out” with a mom’s inherent responsibility when he participates in taking care of children, rather than simply being an equally contributing partner. And if mom is not working, the nuclear family ideal is even more persistent…as it is assumed she is the sole caretaker of the kids with no job to distract her.

All this can make the already difficult early chapters of parenthood next to impossible…and certainly not as enjoyable as they could be for moms who find themselves both partner-less and village-less.

Neil Shyminsky, a college professor and new dad, recently delved into this issue when he explained why he still participates in nighttime feedings—even though he works a full time job and his wife is on parental leave.

Shyminsky’s video was actually a response to another video made by labor equality advocate Paige Turner, who shared that someone called her “crazy” and “selfish” for suggesting a working dad should still wake up early with a new baby to give his wife an occasional break.

@professorneil #stitch with @Paige We’re all working, we’re all tired, and we all have to work in the morning, too #parenting #work #labor ♬ original sound - Professor Neil

“So it's currently 2 a.m. and I'm awake with this little one,” he says in the clip, explaining that he’ll be “on call for another two hours or so” until he switches with his wife, who is currently on parental leave.

As Shyminsky sees it, both parents are still currently working full-time, which makes his participating in overnight activities a no brainer.

“I might have to work a full day on four hours of really awful sleep, but I mean, what's the alternative? That she has to work a full day on none?” he asks.

As he eloquently puts it: “Parenting's work, parenting's labor. Stay-at-home parents work. I have no idea why we are still having this argument. Yeah, I can't figure it out there.”

So many viewers wrote in to praise Shyminsky’s rational take.

“It is exhausting to be the only parent to wake up at night.”

“I never understood the work argument. I still have to stay awake all day to take care of the baby and other kids. I need sleep.”

“Everything you said, and also the way to bond with a baby is by caring for it. That bond is worth some lost sleep.”

Others shared how they incorporated similar strategies.

One person wrote, “My husband and I had a great plan: I would go to bed around 8:00 and he would wake me up to switch around 1:00 or 2:00. We each got 5-6 hours each night. It worked for us!”

Another added, “Yeah we definitely did full night shifts. I’d take one night and husband would take the next. Lifesaver knowing you’d get a night of sleep every other night.”

Shyminsky also told Upworthy that this in no way is considered “helping” his wife, as that implies all things parenting are technically her responsibility and that he’s “assisting” her.

“When I’m not at my job, parenting is a shared and equal responsibility. So I’m not helping with the parenting, I’m sharing in it,” he said.

So true. Parenting is a full-time job…one without pay, and one that you can’t really clock in and out of. It’s downright unrealistic to expect mothers to take it all on by themselves.

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