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Culture

Wil Wheaton gave a perfect explanation of how to separate problematic artists from their art

A truly thoughtful response.

Gage Skidmore/Wikimedia Commons

Wil Wheaton speaking to an audience at 2019 Wondercon.

When you find out an actor whose work you enjoy is blatantly racist and anti-semitic in real life, does that realization ruin every movie they've been a part of?

What about an author who has expressed harmful opinions about a marginalized group? What about a smart, witty comedian who turns out to be a serial sexual assaulter? Where do you draw the line between a creator and their creation? As someone with his feet in both worlds, actor Wil Wheaton weighed in on that question and offered a refreshingly reasonable perspective.

"Question: I have more of an opinion question for you. When fans of things hear about misconduct happening on sets/behind-the-scenes are they allowed to still enjoy the thing? Or should it be boycotted completely? Example: I've been a major fan of Buffy the Vampire Slayer since I was a teenager and it was currently airing. I really nerded out on it and when I lost my Dad at age 16 'The Body' episode had me in such cathartic tears. Now we know about Joss Whedon. I haven't rewatched a single episode since his behavior came to light. As a fan, do I respectfully have to just box that away? Is it disrespectful of the actors that went through it to knowingly keep watching?"

And Wheaton offered this response, which he shared :

" Answer: I have been precisely where you are, right now. In fact, we were just talking about this a few days ago, as it relates to a guy who wrote a ton of music that was PROFOUND to me when I was a teenager. He wrote about being lonely and feeling unloved, and all the things I was feeling as a teenager.

He grew up to be a reprehensible bigot, and for years I couldn't listen to one of the most important bands in my life anymore.

But this week, someone pointed out that he was one member of a group that all worked together to make that thing that was so important to me. And the person he was when he wrote those lyrics is not the person he is today. And the person I was when I heard those lyrics doesn't deserve to be shoved into a box and put away, because that guy is a shit.

This is a long way of saying that Joss sure turned out to be garbage. Because of who my friends are, I know stuff that isn't in the public, and it's pretty horrible. He's just not a good person, and apparently never was a good person.

BUT! Buffy is more than him. It's all the actors and crew who made it. It's all the writers who aren't Joss. Joss is part of it, sure, and some of the episodes he wrote are terrific.

At least one of the episodes he wrote was deeply meaningful to you at a moment in your life when you'd experienced a loss I can only imagine. The person you are now, and the 16 year-old you were who just lost their dad, are more important than the piece of shit Joss Whedon revealed himself to be.

His bad behavior is on him. He has to live with it, and the consequences of it.

Wil Wheaton | Wil Wheaton speaking at the 2012 Phoenix Comic… | Flickrwww.flickr.com

16-year-old you, who just lost their dad, shouldn't have to think about what a shit Joss Whedon is for even a second. That kid, and you, deserve to have that place to revisit when you need to go there.

I can't speak for the other actors, even the ones I know. But I will tell you, as an abuse survivor myself who never wanted to be in front of the camera when he was a kid: it's really okay for you to enjoy the work. The work is good and meaningful, and if nobody is going to watch it because of what one piece of shit did two decades ago, what was it all for?

I'm not the pope of chilitown, so take this for what it's worth: I believe that when some piece of art is deeply meaningful to a person, for whatever reason, that art doesn't belong to the person who created it, if it ever did. It belongs to the person who found something meaningful in the art.

If it feels right to you to put it away and never look at it again, that's totally valid. But if it brings you comfort, or joy, or healing, or just warm familiarity to bring it out and spend some time with it, that's totally valid, too.

I've written a lot of words. I hope some of them make sense and are helpful to you."

upload.wikimedia.org

As with practically everything in this world, the question of whether art can or should be separated from the artist is complex. It involves philosophical questions about the nature of art—where it comes from and who it belongs to—as well as questions about how imperfect a person has to be for us to reject everything they create. Wheaton's response feels right, especially when we're regarding art that is collaboratively created.

This article originally appeared three years ago.

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culture

Pop Culture

Comedian artfully explains what 'shock comics' get wrong about edgy humor

Anthony Jeselnik says there's a difference between being an artist and being a troll.

Anthony Jeselnik/TikTok

There's something weird going on with comedians.

Comic and writer Marc Maron recently wrote that it's comedians, of all people — a special new breed of them — who are spearheading the "anti-woke" movement, whether it's by paling around with Donald Trump and his supporters, or just going out of their way to offend as many people as possible.

Not to name any names, but you see this type of comic in the news A LOT these days. Comedians have always pushed the boundaries of what is acceptable to say in public. That's part of the job. But the newer generation of 'shock comics' has forgotten one very important ingredient in the timeless recipe. You have to be funny.

Comedian Anthony Jeselnik recently called out comedians who don't bother actually trying to be funny in their edginess. "You're just a troll," he says.

No one would ever accuse Jeselnik of being a clean-cut, PG entertainer. He's known for being ruthless and shocking in his stand-up sets. It's a character he plays, which he describes as the most vile and evil person you could ever imagine.

- YouTube(Original Airdate: 03/06/13) Anthony loves sharks so much that he would prefer if people didn't survive shark attacks. Subscribe to ...

Here's a taste from one of his specials:

“When I was a kid, my parents had a gun. My parents said we had to have a gun. Gotta have a gun to protect their five children. Of course, they eventually got rid of it… to protect their four children."

Jeselnik says his brand of extreme humor is not as easy to pull off as it looks.

In a resurfaced clip — which Jeselnik himself just happened to repost to his own TikTok account — the comedian goes off on the types of comedians that he considers to be trolls.

@anthonyjeselnik
Four weeks until Anthony Jeselnik: Bones and All comes to Netflix.

"People think like, oh as a comic, your job is to get in trouble. But they don't wanna get yelled at. It's like, it's okay to make people mad, but they don't want any pushback."

"As a comedian, you want to make people laugh," he says.

Which should be obvious, but it's something that's missing far too often in the name of pushing the envelope, or even being flat-out hateful. Jeselnik then invokes a quote from Andy Warhol: "Art is getting away with it."

"If you put out a special, and everyone's pissed," he says, "You didn't get away with it. ... You know, you need to make everyone laugh. .. That's art."

The key word there being 'everyone'. You need to make everyone laugh. A room full of white people laughing at the expense of Hispanics, or a room full of straight people laughing at gay jokes — that's not comedy, it's just punching down.

A joke about cancer that cancer patients can't help but laugh at? Jokes about blind people that blind people actually think are funny? That is art. That is comedy.

And that's what the great comedians have always aspired to. (Warning: NSFW humor)

- YouTubeIf you're wondering what Anthony Jeselnik thinks of his parents, abortion, guns, or Twitter, this is for you. Watch Anthony Jeselnik: ...

Of course, everyone misses the mark sometimes, or unintentionally goes too far. But Jeselnik says getting criticized when you miss is just part of the job. He's famously said he has no sympathy for "cancelled" comedians like Dave Chappelle.

“He makes so much money. Your job should be a little hard. I don’t have sympathy for you in that. He says whatever he wants to, great, but when there’s pushback I don’t know why it bothers him,” Jeselnik said in an interview with Talib Kwelli for Uproxx.

George Carlin was another great who understood the art in bringing people together to laugh at touchy subjects. He once said it was a comedian's job to take the audience to a place they don't want to go, but that if you could make them laugh along the way, they'd thank you for it.

Just remember next time a famous person says "you can't make comedy anymore, people are too sensitive!" that there are comics like Jeselnik making jokes about burn victims and necrophilia — and they seem to be doing just fine.

humor

Equality

Johnny Depp was asked about cancel culture and his answer brings up some valuable insights

commons.wikimedia.org

File:Johnny Depp-2757.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

While accepting an award at the San Sebastian film festival, Johnny Depp recently described cancel culture as being "out of hand." The actor, who stepped down from his roles in Pirates of the Caribbean and Fantastic Beasts after losing in a domestic assault lawsuit with ex-wife Amber Heard, went on to say "no one is safe...not one of you."

Regardless of what you think about Depp's own personal life, could the actor who was once Hollywood's most reliable star be onto something here?

Johnny Depp Claims Cancel Culture Has Gotten 'Out Of Hand'www.youtube.com

A short disclaimer here: this is not a debate about whether or not Johnny Depp is innocent or guilty, or whether or now he should have been "cancelled". Rather, the point here is that Depp brings up some valid, or at the very least interesting, points about this cultural phenomenon.

Here is what Depp had to say, according to Deadline:

"...This instant rush to judgement based on what essentially amounts to polluted air...It takes one sentence and there's no more ground, the carpet has been pulled. It's not just me that this has happened to, it's happened to a lot of people. This type of thing has happened to women, men. Sadly at a certain point they begin to think that it's normal. Or that it's them. When it's not."

Public call-outs were once intended to give power to those without a voice, as with the Black Lives Matter and #MeToo movements. Finally, marginalized communities were able to take down high profile Goliaths and force them to actually take responsibility for their behavior. As with the cases of Harvey Weinstien and Kevin Spacey, cancel culture can create lasting, positive change.

However, things can become toxic, when the initial instinct is to publicly humiliate, revoke, and excommunicate others in snap judgements. Is this really advocating for more accountability? Or mob mentality?

Depp continues with:

"Hollywood is certainly not what it was… it is a case of, 'no matter what, I'm going to get mine'. That's where these people are coming from." "They realize they're just as disposable as I am."

Depp brings up another valid point in this jab at the Film & TV industry. Cancel culture in many ways can be seen as a branch of the "woke capitalism" tree. Woke Capitalism meaning those superficial nods to social justice, all in the name of making money off of it.

Take for instance the controversial, tone-deaf Pepsi ad starring Kendall Jenner, that completely trivialized the Black Lives Matter movement in the name of selling soda. Now, it doesn't escape me that what put these ads under scrutiny was, in fact, an act of cancel culture.

the new @Pepsi ad evoking imagery of @IeshiaEvans in Baton Rouge is total exploitative brand social activism bs pic.twitter.com/YzAFtWEzDO
— Sherry (@Sherry) 1491338536

But it does raise the question: should we really be taking our moral cues from these industries, who try to cash in on genuine social justice movements? Hollywood is telling us to call people out now that it's in fashion, but they could have easily cancelled Weinstein ages ago. Perhaps the way some individuals (maybe including Depp, maybe not) are handled need not be as extreme as we're being called to do now. After all, isn't the whole point the pursuit of justice?

Johnny Depp's statement, whether intended to make himself a martyr or not, does contain within it some resounding truth. Undeniably, there are times of right vs. wrong. There are times when accountability must be claimed, especially when it comes to giving power to the disadvantaged. However, there is always a danger in the territory of extremes. In the case of cancel culture being given absolute power, the danger lies in how the weapon is used. It should be aimed with the intention of protection, rather than being swung wildly. It should be used when other methods have tried and failed. When cancelling takes the place of discourse, that's when we aren't really making collective progress.

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Seth Rogen says he doesn't care about cancel culture: 'It's not worth complaining about'

via Gage Skidmore / Flickr

Last week, comedian Chris Rock spoke out about cancel culture on Power 105.1's "The Breakfast Club" saying it's made entertainment become too "safe" which has been terrible for the industry and audiences alike.

"And when everyone gets safe and nobody tries anything, things get boring," he told the New York station's Angela Yee and DJ Envy.

"I see a lot of unfunny comedians, I see unfunny TV shows, I see unfunny awards shows, I see unfunny movies — because everybody's scared to make a move," he said.

Rock has a point in saying that fear of a backlash has forced a lot of people to reevaluate their material and for entertainment companies to avoid controversial topics and entertainers. However, actor Seth Rogen believes that when it comes to comedy, the real problem has more to do with the medium's limited shelf life, than regressive political correctness.

"There are certain jokes that for sure have not aged well, but I think that's the nature of comedy," Rogen told "Good Morning Britain,' adding that some of the jokes in his films haven't aged well.

"I think conceptually those movies are sound and I think there's a reason they've lasted as far as people still watching and enjoying them today. Jokes are not things that necessarily are built to last," he said.

He added: "To me when I see comedians complaining about this kind of thing, I don't understand what they're complaining about. If you've made a joke that's aged terribly, accept it. And if you don't think it's aged terribly, then say that."

Rogen continued, saying that criticism is "one of the things that goes along with being an artist."

"To me, it's not worth complaining about to the degree I see other comedians complaining about," he added.

Seth Rogen says he doesn\u2019t understand why some comedians complain about "cancel culture":\n\n\u201cSaying terrible things is bad. So if you said something terrible, then that\u2019s something you should confront \u2026 I dont think that\u2019s cancel culture.\u201dpic.twitter.com/qZGETFkAFv
— The Recount (@The Recount) 1621975416

The "Pineapple Express" star says he's avoided having to apologize for tweets or jokes he's made in the past, because he's never thought punching down was funny. "I was never a comedian that made jokes that were truly designed to target groups that were subjugated in some way," he said.

"Have we done that without realizing it? Definitely. And those things are in our movies and they're out there, and they're things that I am more than happy to say that they have not aged well," he added.

Rogen believes that a lot of it just comes down to simply being a decent human being.

"Saying terrible things is bad, so if you've said something terrible, then it's something you should confront in some way, shape, or form. I don't think that's cancel culture," Rogen said. "That's you saying something terrible if that's what you've done."

Rogen and Rock's recent comments on cancel culture show why the controversy surrounding the issue is so tough. We should work to foster a society where artists are free to speak their minds, especially in the world of comedy, an artform based on pushing boundaries.

However, we've also progressed as a society to the point where it's fair to criticize artists who take shots at people from marginalized communities who don't deserve to be targets.

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Fox News asked Gen X to 'stop cancel culture' and the responses are simply hilarious

via Fox News and Todd Hoyer / Twitter

Fox News poked the sleeping tiger known as Gen X and got the generation known for slacking and sarcasm to muster, a collective "whatever."

The news network aired a segment on "cancel culture" where it urged "Generation X to lead the charge to save America from the social media mob. Can they do it?" Short answer: Who knows, but they aren't interested either way.

— (@)

Right-wing media has been apoplectic recently over a rash of incidents where iconic pieces of pop culture from The Washington Redskins to "Gone with the Wind" to Dr. Seuss have been reevaluated by younger "woke" progressives.

While there is value in a movement that holds people accountable for propagating racist and sexist ideas, the Fox News crowd dismisses it simply as "cancel culture."

The Fox News target demographic is firmly in camp Baby Boomer, with the average viewer being around 65-years-old. According to Kasasa, "If you go by raw numbers, of the 3.3 million households taking in Sean Hannity's show on a nightly basis in 2018, just south of 2 million would have been senior citizens."

Baby Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964 and are currently between 57-75 years old.

So as Boomer authority over the nation's youth wanes by the day, Fox News made an appeal to Gen X to protect older, conservative people from the ravages of cancel culture. But according to reactions on Twitter, Gen X, aka "The Coolest Generation," couldn't care less.

The generation that's currently between the ages of 41 to 56 remembers a time when their Baby Boomer and Greatest Generation parents tried to cancel everything in their childhood.

But these calls weren't from liberals in the '80s, they were from pearl-clutching conservatives (and even some high-profile Democrats like Tipper Gore and Joe Lieberman), evangelical Christians, and paranoid suburbanites.

Whether it was the "Satanic Panic" surrounding heavy metal and "Dungeons and Dragons," the Parents Music Resource Center labeling hip-hop music, or the endless crusade against video games, the Boomer version of cancel culture was aimed squarely at Gen X.

In fact, Gen Xers lost one of their greatest childhood heroes in Pee-Wee Herman who got canceled for falling short of Bush 1-era moral norms.

Fox's appeal resulted in a slew of hilarious tweets from Gen Xers who could care less about the Boomer obsession with cancel culture. But, to be fair, it's not like Gen X was known for giving an F about much in the first place.

First of all, they just don't have the time.

We are too busy booking vax appointments for our parents and forcing them to come with us after you indoctrinated them into thinking that the vax was a liberal conspiracy.
— Doug Roberts (@robertspacli) March 15, 2021

They reminded Fox News of everything the Boomers tried to cancel back in the '80s.

You crack me up. One of my students who attends Christian School said she couldn't read Harry Potter books. And I loved the Teletubbies pic.twitter.com/LeO9r4zzZF
— GIVE ME BACK MY 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 (@bren2915) March 15, 2021

GenXers scarred by growing up with Bill Bennet, Tipper Gore, & Pat Robertson telling us what not to read, listen to, or think about would like to ask Fox why they suddenly think GenX should be seen & have a voice. GenX has been invisible because it's the generation never valued.
— Nellie Cubed (@NelNelNellie) March 15, 2021

— (@)

Gen X only needs to Google the Dixie Chicks to see the hypocrisy.
— nancy cronvich (@FT1965) March 15, 2021

On behalf of every cassette tape and CD I owned with an explicit lyrics sticker courtesy of the PMRC I'm going to have to say I'll pass.
— Shea (@Shea_LC) March 15, 2021

Sorry, I'm too busy playing my heavy metal albums backwards to summon the devil.
— Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever. (@JustSomeGuy1970) March 15, 2021

— (@)

Right wing: Let's fight back against cancel culture!
Also right wing: We need to boycott Starbucks because their Christmas cups make me think of satan.
— Mask it up. 🇺🇸 (@Disasterdude_VT) March 15, 2021

Another huge reason not to get involved: "Whatever."

— (@)

So sorry but we are collectively not feeling up to it today pic.twitter.com/GHjJHSI4Bc
— Lady Menopause, Dragon Queen & Slayer of Clownery (@LadyMenopause) March 15, 2021

As a duly authorized representative of Gen X let me respond in the language of my people: pic.twitter.com/CxgvbnZ4Xu
— Edward DeRuiter (@edwardderuiter) March 15, 2021

pic.twitter.com/elpvqDDQaZ
— Windmill Cancer Survivor (@NotBatspud) March 15, 2021

The whole point of being Gen X is feeling no obligation to answer a call to do anything.
— Todd Hoyer (@ToddHoyer) March 15, 2021

Gen X, the forgotten generation stuck beneath two of the most populous, was canceled long ago. It's almost like the parents of latchkey kids just realized they had children and now they want them to come to their rescue.

Y'all know we already got canceled ourselves right? pic.twitter.com/3odpcbSD7Y
— Catholic Space Slingshot (@mrschrislopez) March 15, 2021

— (@)

Boomers want us to fix their problem? Lmao.
Gen X would like to give the requisite "Whatever" then slip back under the radar. With our microwave popcorn we taught ourselves to make after-school, unsupervised as always. We have no Fs to give about this.
— kc (@DetroitNomad) March 15, 2021

Boomers burned my childhood making me raise siblings cause they were too busy to care for any of us.

I watched them gloat & say “got what they deserved" as thousands died to HIV/AIDS.

They've profited off burning the world my kid will inherit cause Fox said science isn't real. pic.twitter.com/xTf5WqyxEb
— Trai-All (@trai_all) March 15, 2021

Like, we totally care. Seriously.

pic.twitter.com/4yScoNGx6p
— Hugo (@huginho82) March 15, 2021

Could it be that they're harping on cancel culture because they have nothing else to complain about?

This is a nontroversy. The real story is that Fox apparently has no legitimate anti-Biden issues to pursue.
— Grandma Muses™ ☘️🍕 (@GrandmaMuses) March 15, 2021

We have a winner.

Says the network that tried REALLY hard to cancel the votes of 81 million Americans.
— Jinx in TN (@grrenshaw) March 15, 2021

From Your Site Articles

cancel culture

Wil Wheaton gave a perfect explanation of how to separate problematic artists from their art

A truly thoughtful response.

When you find out an actor whose work you enjoy is blatantly racist and anti-semitic in real life, does that realization ruin every movie they've been a part of?

Comedian artfully explains what 'shock comics' get wrong about edgy humor

Anthony Jeselnik says there's a difference between being an artist and being a troll.

Comedian Anthony Jeselnik recently called out comedians who don't bother actually trying to be funny in their edginess. "You're just a troll," he says.

A joke about cancer that cancer patients can't help but laugh at? Jokes about blind people that blind people actually think are funny? That is art. That is comedy.

Johnny Depp was asked about cancel culture and his answer brings up some valuable insights

Seth Rogen says he doesn't care about cancel culture: 'It's not worth complaining about'

Fox News asked Gen X to 'stop cancel culture' and the responses are simply hilarious

Brit shares the one-word 'dead giveaway' that American actors are doing an English accent

Adorable Golden Retriever absolutely loses it when he runs into his vet at a bar

Man hilariously calls out why the trend of giving babies 'old people names' has got to go

This 'creepy' guy wouldn't stop staring at her at the gym. She knew exactly what to do next.

Robin Williams doing his thing in a phone commercial from the 1970s is peak nostalgia

Cool video reveals why people in old movies talked 'funny'