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Joy

Best buddies separated during WWII reunite 78 later, proving that true friendship is forever

'It was like we had always been family.'

vets reunited, ptsd, world war 2

World War II, Operation Overlord, Omaha Beach, 1944.

This summer, after 78 years apart, my grandfather, World War II veteran Jack Gutman, got to reunite with his best friend from the war, Jerry Ackerman. They saw each other for the first time since the 1940s and spent two days laughing, joking, catching up and being honored by the Marine Corps at Camp Pendleton in Oceanside, California.

Finding an old friend is always an occasion to celebrate, but the story of how this reunion came to be feels like true kismet. Not only were two buddies reunited, it also brought closure to two WWII veterans during some of the tougher years of their lives, while also uniting two families, now forever changed.

Take a moment and think back to what you were doing at the age of 17.



Depending on your generation, the activities might look a bit different. Baby boomers might have been sipping a milkshake at the local diner. Gen Xers might have been angstily listening to The Smiths or the Sex Pistols. If you’re a Gen Y millennial like me, you were maybe shopping for cheap jewelry at Claire’s Accessories at the mall. Regardless of what you were up to as a teenager, you probably weren’t doing what my grandfather was doing at age 17—fighting as a Navy Corpsman during the invasion of Normandy.

My Grandpa Jack was born in 1925 and grew up in New York City. When Uncle Sam called, he lied about his age and enlisted in the Navy. He wanted to serve his country, but had no idea the horrors of war he would witness during the Normandy Invasion and the invasion at Okinawa.

When I was growing up, my grandfather didn’t talk about the war. For years he struggled with PTSD and all of the various coping mechanisms people experiment with to get out of pain. It almost tore his life apart, but with the love and support of our family, he made his first steps toward healing.

With the help of Dylan Bender, a talented therapist with the Veterans Association, a decade of EMDR and CBT, my grandfather can now talk about his experience during the war. He even wrote a book about it.

Group photo of young navy corpsmen during World War II.

via Erin Shaw

He’s been interviewed on television, at the WWII Museum in New Orleans and he speaks to groups of students regularly. He even got to travel to Normandy, France for the 75th anniversary of D-Day as part of a documentary. You could say his journey to heal the wounds of war was pretty complete, but there has always been one bit of closure he was never able to get.

A friend he always wondered about.

In between the invasion of Normandy and his time in Okinawa, my Grandpa Jack returned to Camp Pendleton for training and that is where he met Jerry Ackerman.

“I was assigned to Oceanside, California and that’s where I met Jack, and we became instant friends,” said Jerry. “He was the most jovial, fun-loving guy ever. Always smiling and always happy.”

The feeling was mutual. “Jerry was one of my best friends after Normandy. I knew him when I got transferred over to Oceanside to the Beach Battalion. We hit it off, I guess from both being New Yorkers maybe. One thing I didn’t like about Jerry was that he was better looking than me,” Grandpa Jack joked. “We bonded together, and it was one of the greatest times I’ve ever had.”

The camaraderie of this new friendship gave my grandpa a respite from all of the atrocities he had experienced while trying to patch up dying soldiers on the beach in France. In his friendship with Jerry and another Navyman, Joe Gagliardi (who we haven’t been able to find), Grandpa Jack found solace and humanity … the very things he wanted to fight to protect when he enlisted. Unfortunately, the war hadn’t ended yet and when Grandpa Jack was sent to Japan, he, Joe and Jerry lost touch.

“We never got a chance to say goodbye when we got to Pearl Harbor,” said Grandpa Jack. “I got transferred to another ship. So all these years I often wondered about them.”

Apparently, Jerry had been wondering about my grandfather as well because one day in early 2021, out of nowhere, a silly little song my grandpa had once taught him popped into his head. It was a happy memory that Jerry desperately needed. His wife Barbara was in the hospital in New York for a health issue, and he was very down after having visited her.

“My parents have been married for 70 years and when something happens to one of them, like my mother’s hospitalization, it really affects the other,” said Peter Ackerman, Jerry’s son. “My father and I finished visiting her and went to a restaurant. It was there, toward the end of our meal, when a song randomly popped into his head that he hadn’t sung since his Navy days during WWII. It was a song, he said, that was taught to him by his good buddy, Jack Gutman. As my father lamented out loud about having never been able to track his friend down, using my phone and good ol' Google, I found someone matching Jack’s description and Navy background. When my father realized I was actually calling someone named Jack Gutman his eyes were as wide as pies!”

Meanwhile in California, Grandpa Jack was having a tough time himself. His life had changed drastically when the pandemic hit. He, like everyone else, was feeling isolated, and while younger generations were turning to their devices, social media and Zoom, older generations without as much tech knowledge were feeling even lonelier. At the time, Grandpa Jack had just gotten over the coronavirus and my grandma had gotten COVID-19 pneumonia and was still slowly recovering. They were quarantined at home and Grandpa Jack was experiencing some pretty tough bouts of depression.

“I was depressed and really down, sitting in my office one afternoon and I was just thinking that life was a lot of crap,” Grandpa Jack said. “I usually try to stay pretty positive, but this day was tough. In my lowest moment of depression the phone rang, and it turned out to be a guy named Peter. He said to me, ‘Are you Jack Gutman?’ and I said, ‘Yeah…’ and he said, ‘Were you stationed in Oceanside, California?’ and I said, ‘I sure was, yeah.’ And he said, ‘Did you ever know a Jerry Ackerman?’ and I said, ‘He was my best friend. I’ve got his picture up on my wall,’ and he said, ‘He’s my father and he’s sitting right here, and he’s been looking for you for about 77 years.’ And I tell you, the tears flowed. It was just the thing I needed so badly. I could not believe it.”

The timing of this call couldn’t have been better, and it was so random that it felt kind of like fate to our families.

“I will take to my grave the look of pure joy on my father’s face when he and Jack spoke for the first time. They talked for a half hour and vowed to keep in touch,” said Peter.

For Grandpa Jack, it was an emotional and life-affirming call that helped give his days some renewed vigor. “Hearing his voice and realizing that there’s a man that for 77 years has been wondering about me, it touched my heart,” said Grandpa Jack.

When the call ended, Peter tells me that his father was beyond grateful to have reconnected with Jack. “He was almost in shock, and happier than I had seen him in a very long time,” he said. “Sitting there in that restaurant, listening to my father talking, laughing and reminiscing with Jack, I felt so happy for both of them, and a deep sense of satisfaction in having helped sew that stitch. It was as if a circle was completed. It was a highlight of my life, and I believe one of the great highlights of my father’s life as well.”

These two men could have connected at any point during the last 70-plus years but for some reason it didn’t happen until a moment when they both needed to hear from each other. Some might call it coincidence, some might call it fate, but it changed both men’s lives.

“My dad’s life had changed so much because of the pandemic,” said my mom, Paula Shaw. “He couldn’t be out with his friends and doing his speaking engagements. So when Jerry’s call came through, dad’s whole life picked up again and turned around. It gave him hope and it gave him a sense that he mattered because this man, 77 years later, remembered him and sought him out. So it was a real turning point for dad.”

You’d think that just having that phone call would have been a highlight of these two men’s twilight years, but there was more coming.

A reunion with military honors.

Jack and Jerry kept in touch over the phone for the next year, but they were still yet to see each other face to face. My mom Paula had gotten to befriend Peter and together they were able to plan a time for Grandpa Jack and Jerry to meet, with a few family members in tow.

It turned out the Ackermans were planning to be in San Diego for a wedding in June of this year and with my own family based in Southern California it would be the perfect time for a reunion.

But before that, they had a face-to-face chat with my mom when she interviewed them for her podcast, Change it Up Radio. I asked my mom what it was like to facilitate the first face-to-face interaction between Jack and Jerry on her podcast over Zoom, and she described it as life-changing.

“When I got the idea to have them see each other for the first time on the Zoom screen I had no idea how really wonderful and moving and almost life-changing it was going to be. When they laid eyes on each other for the first time, dad started to cry, and Jerry just got the sweetest, softest expression on his face. He was so touched that dad was so happy to be able to see him.”

With their podcast interview in the can and a first face-to-face reunion over Zoom a success, it was time to get together in person in San Diego.

World War II veterans are harder and harder to connect with these days. According to Forbes, we lose approximately 234 of them each day. Having two best friends from the war still alive, healthy and with all their mental faculties intact is rare, so time was of the essence to get these two together for some quality time.

Unbeknown to Jerry and Grandpa Jack, my mom had arranged a visit to Camp Pendleton for them as well as for CBS News to come capture their reunion. Our family captured some of our own amateur footage, which is hard to watch without crying.

So what was it like to witness the reunion in person? “It was just lovely to see,” said Mary Jo Gutman, my grandma. “To think about the time that had passed and now they were able to see each other and touch each other, it was just a beautiful moment. Everybody that was there was having the same experience. Some people teared up and some were just in a state of shock, but a happy state. We were all just happy for them both.”

My uncle, Craig Gutman, traveled with Grandpa Jack back to Normandy in 2019 and was with him when he visited the beaches and military cemetery there. He says while that was tough, this moment of closure was nothing but joyful. “It was just so nice for them to see each other again and to be back with each other,” he said. “Even after just a few minutes they were the same 19-year-old guys, BS-ing with each other and telling jokes. To just see the joy in both of them, being able to find an old friend after so many years that they probably figured was either dead or gone and would never be seen again. It was just great.”

My aunt Marilyn Gutman describes their reunion as a full-circle moment. “When they met, it was like they had always been together, starting in on the jokes, the laughter, the camaraderie that had brought them together initially. I felt their lives had just come full circle. I felt a completeness for them, a closure of the wounds of war.”

Over the course of the next couple of days, the families got to spend time together and although I wasn’t able to be there myself, everyone who was there described loving each other instantly just like Jack and Jerry had upon meeting.

“It was like we had always been family,” my mom Paula said. “I get a little teary just thinking about it. It was like we’d known each other for years. We laughed, we had meals together, we chatted up a storm. It was crazy. It was like whatever that energy was that brought dad and Jerry together had been passed onto the families. All the family members felt that same connection.”

For my Grandpa Jack, getting to reunite with his best friend from the war was the last bit of closure he has needed during his healing journey with PTSD. It has reminded him that love is the most important thing we can give to others and that we never know how we touch someone’s life just by being their friend.

“Jack struck me as the happiest guy in the whole world,” Jerry said. “I never ever knew what he went through in Normandy. I’m very delighted to know that at least I was a part of helping Jack rehabilitate himself. I’m very happy about that. Our reunion is something I will never forget.”

Grandpa Jack told me that he spent so long working to get over post-traumatic stress but not knowing what happened to Jerry was like a wound still left open. Finding out what had happened to him gave him closure, but being able to see each other and connect was a moment he’ll never forget. “It really fulfilled a closure for me. It was just amazing.”

“I feel like for both of them there was this unfinished chapter,” said my mom, Paula. “There was so much love between these two men and the war didn’t kill it.”

Perhaps Virgil said it best when he said, “Amor vincit omnia.” Love conquers all.

Autumn de Forest

Autumn de Forest stands before a sign with her name on it

When Autumn de Forest was 5, she picked up a paintbrush for the first time. It wasn't long before she was ready to show the world what she could do.

After a year of practice, the then-6-year-old asked her father if he could get her a booth at a local art-in-the-park program. "People would come up to the booth, and they would talk to my father, and they'd say, 'This is great!'" she said. "Apparently they thought it was Take Your Daughter to Work Day."

Almost everyone thought the artwork was her father's. And when they found out that tiny Autumn was the artist, people couldn't believe their eyes.


art, kids, art genius, kid genius Autumn created this piece when she was just 5 years old. Autumn de Forest

Soon, Autumn rose to national fame.

When Autumn was 8, she was featured on the Discovery Health Channel. There was a slew of media attention in the years that followed. There was Disney. There was The Today Show. There was Wendy Williams. She was called a child genius, a prodigy, and an expert painter.


autumn deforest, art, kids, paintingSoon, Autumn rose to national fame.Autumn Deforest


Suddenly, Autumn de Forest was everywhere.

But not everyone was so accepting of the young artist and her work. Some people in the art world had ... questions. Sure, she was good for a kid. But was her art actually good? Others wondered if the whole thing might be an elaborate hoax.

Autumn decided not to listen.

By 14 she developed a startlingly organized daily routine that went far beyond a 9 to 5.

Somehow, as the focus on her age begins to wear off, Autumn's work ethic and art only grow stronger. She said that most days, she'd wake up in her parents' Las Vegas home at 7:30 a.m. After breakfast, she'd break out her supplies for a one- or two-hour painting session. From there, she dove into her school work. Most brick-and-mortar schools can't accommodate her travel schedule, so she did the majority of her schooling online.

Before dinner, it's back into the studio.

"That session can last much longer, that can be three or four hours when I really get into it," she said. "Then I probably have dinner and go to bed."

kids, painting, artistic genius, paintings, kid artists Autumn de Forest paints Autumn de Forest


The results? They speak for themselves.

Autumn de Forest, painting, art, kids, prodigy An Autumn de Forest painting Autumn de Forest

Her work has been displayed in galleries and exhibitions all over the world.

Autumn held a public demonstration before a showing at The Butler Institute of American Art.

Autumn de Forest, painting, kids, artAn Autumn de Forest painting Autumn de Forest

In 2015, Autumn received the International Giuseppe Sciacca Award in Painting and Art.

The award took her to the Vatican for a private showing of her artwork with the pope.


She's also worked with the President's Committee on the Arts and the Humanities, headed up by former First Lady Michelle Obama.

Autumn de Forest, the Pope, Pope Francis, painting, artAutumn de Forest stands with the Pope who looks at one of her paintings Autumn de Forest

As part of the program, de Forest traveled to underprivileged schools around the country and led painting workshops. Oh, and if you're looking for some hard numbers to attach to Autumn's talent, she's got those, too.

Her paintings raked in over $7 million at auctions by the time she was a teenager — fetching as much as $25,000 each — much of which has gone directly to charities and disaster relief funds.


At 23-years-old now, what's Autumn de Forest up to lately?

Autumn de Forest, painting, art, kidsAutumn de Forest works with other young painters Autumn de Forest

A lot!

The transition from child prodigy to respected artist has kept her busy.

In 2017, the Monthaven Arts and Cultural Center in Hendersonville, Tennessee hosted a major solo exhibition for de Forest titled "Her White Room: The Art of Autumn de Forest."

That same year, de Forest was listed as one of Teen Vogue's "21 Under 21." In her profile she was praised for her talent as well as her commitment to art education.

"In dis­advantaged schools, they consider the arts an extracur­ricular activity," she told Teen Vogue. "It's devastating, as there could be child prodigies in these schools, but they don't know that they have this God-­given gift because they're not given the opportunity because there's nearly no art programs in schools."

In 2018, de Forest was featured in the music video for the song "Youth" by best-selling recording artists Shawn Mendes and Khalid. The video highlights exceptional young people working to change the world, including de Forest, Emma González, and Elias and Zion Phoenix.

The video has over 17 million plays on YouTube.

And of course, Autumn continues to share her absolutely incredible artwork on Instagram and in shows and exhibitions around the globe.

The Autumn de Forest Foundation, helps her keep track of the kids she's met throughout the years and to continue to help them with their art careers.

A portion of the foundation's money goes to a 529 account set up for the students while 10% goes to them directly.

"A lot of these kids that I work with, they're not very old, they're in second grade, third grade, fourth grade. Maybe in 10 years, they may only have four or five thousand dollars but that could be the difference between them going to college or not," Autumn told Teen Vogue.

Autumn's incredible rise in the art world is an astonishing feat for someone who's still in her teens. But that accomplishment is easily matched by her generosity and commitment to helping develop tomorrow's prodigies as well.

For more information, visit the Autumn de Forest Foundation.


This article originally appeared nine years ago.

It's not everyday that a video of a local school board meeting ends up with 2.2 million views. In fact, we're not sure it's ever happened before.

If you need proof standardized testing is setting students up for failure, just ask the students. Sydney Smoot had a bone to pick with the Hernando County School Board. The issue? The Florida Standards Assessment Test, or FSA for short. On March 17, 2015, Sydney bravely stood up at her local school board meeting to share how she felt about the test and why she believes it's failing students and teachers.

"This testing looks at me as a number. One test defines me as either a failure or a success through a numbered rubric. One test at the end of the year that the teacher or myself will not even see the grade until after the school year is already over. I do not feel that all this FSA testing is accurate to tell how successful I am. It doesn't take in account all of my knowledge and abilities, just a small percentage." — Sydney Smoot

Can we give this little girl a medal? She was speaking right to our souls with that speech!


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Here's the full transcript of her remarks:

“Fellow members of the school board, today I will express my concerns about the FSA testing. I consider myself a well-educated young lady. However, with FSA tests my five years of school… do not matter. This testing looks at me as a number. One test defines me as either a failure or a success through a numbered rubric. One test at the end of the year that the teacher or myself will not see the grade [for] until after the school year is already over.

I do not feel that all of this FSA testing is accurate to tell how successful I am. It doesn’t take into account all of my knowledge and abilities, just a small percentage. Here are my concerns. First of all, I do not feel good signing a form in the FSA ensuring that you can’t even discuss the test with your parents. I am not comfortable signing something like this I have the right to talk to my parents about any and everything related to school and my education. Second, why am I being forced to take a test that hasn’t even been testing on students here in Florida, so how can it be accurate and valid on what I know? Why are we taking most of the year stressing and prepping for one test at the end of the year when we should be taking tests throughout the year that really measure our abilities?

My opinion is that we should take a test at the beginning of the year, middle, and end of the school year to accurately measure what we know. The pressure this puts on me and I’m sure most students is not healthy. Why should we have so much stress about one test when we should be learning and having fun in school? With all of this testing in school, more fun things such as recess are being eliminated because of training for the test! So, ladies and gentlemen of the school board, I urge you to put a stop to high-stakes testing today. It’s not fair to the schools, teachers, and students. Parents and students, contact your governor to put a stop to all the standardized testing. Thank you so much for your time.”


standardized tests, school, education, K-12, Ron DeSantis, FloridaA frustrated student sits at their deskImage via Canva


Since the FSA was first implemented, it came under intense criticism. Critics said it takes critical funds away from students and does not do as good of a job as national testing standards in helping to prepare young students for higher education or careers after their K-12 school is complete. In 2022, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis officially did away with the FSA program. "Today we come, not to praise the FSA, but to bury it," DeSantis said at the time.

The FSA was replaced with a progress monitoring system that was meant to reduce testing times and give students more updated progress goals as their education continues throughout the academic year.

"Instead of having one major test at the end of the year which provided no feedback to students before the summer came, we would do progress monitoring that would monitor progress throughout the school year," DeSantis added. "It would be shorter, it would be more individualized, and it would provide good feedback for students, for teachers, and for parents."

That's the kind of statement a young Sydney Smoot could get behind. And it's why her words still so powerfully resonate nearly a decade later.

This article originally appeared 10 years ago. It has since been updated with new information.



Humor

Artist gives 6 of Disney's most beloved characters a modern twist  to explain today's world

"I thought transporting them to our modern world could help us see it through new eyes."

Classic Disney characters reimagined for modern times

Artist Tom Ward has used his incredible illustration techniques to give us some new perspective on modern life through popular Disney characters. "Disney characters are so iconic that I thought transporting them to our modern world could help us see it through new eyes," he told The Metro.

Tom says he wanted to bring to life "the times we live in and communicate topical issues in a relatable way."

In Ward's "Alt Disney" series, Prince Charming and Pinocchio have fallen victim to smart phone addiction. Ariel is living in a polluted ocean, and Simba and Baloo have been abused by humans.

Not all the news is bad though. LeFou form "Beauty and the Beast" has finally come out of the closet and his crush, Gaston, appears to be pretty accepting of the revelation.

Although, was it really such a shock?

Ward believes that his illustration of Artur from "Sword and the Stone makes" a particularly strong point. "I also think the message of Arthur from The Sword in the Stone sitting on his phone has some resonance today," he said. "He's too engrossed in his phone to experience other opportunities and realize his true potential in life."

You can see more of Ward's work on Instagram.

This article originally appeared eight years ago.

UCI doctoral candidate Mya Le Thai has developed a nanowire-based technology that allows lithium-ion batteries to be recharged hundreds of thousands of times.

There's an old saying that luck happens when preparation meets opportunity.

There's no better example of that than a 2016 discovery at the University of California, Irvine, by doctoral student Mya Le Thai. After playing around in the lab, she made a discovery that could lead to a rechargeable battery that could last up to 400 years. That means longer-lasting laptops and smartphones and fewer lithium ion batteries piling up in landfills.

A team of researchers at UCI had been experimenting with nanowires for potential use in batteries, but found that over time the thin, fragile wires would break down and crack after too many charging cycles. A charge cycle is when a battery goes from completely full to completely empty and back to full again.

But one day, on a whim, Thai coated a set of gold nanowires in manganese dioxide and a Plexiglas-like electrolyte gel.

batteries, renewable energy, energy, renewable batteries, rechargeable batteries, innovationBatteries being recycled at WRWA, London. Nov ‘21Photo by John Cameron on Unsplash

"She started to cycle these gel capacitors, and that's when we got the surprise," said Reginald Penner, chair of the university's chemistry department. "She said, 'this thing has been cycling 10,000 cycles and it's still going.' She came back a few days later and said 'it's been cycling for 30,000 cycles.' That kept going on for a month."

This discovery is mind-blowing because the average laptop battery lasts 300 to 500 charge cycles. The nanobattery developed at UCI made it though 200,000 cycles in three months. That would extend the life of the average laptop battery by about 400 years. The rest of the device would have probably gone kaput decades before the battery, but the implications for a battery that that lasts hundreds of years are pretty startling.

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“Mya was playing around, and she coated this whole thing with a very thin gel layer and started to cycle it,” said Penner added. “She discovered that just by using this gel, she could cycle it hundreds of thousands of times without losing any capacity.”

“That was crazy,” he added, “because these things typically die in dramatic fashion after 5,000 or 6,000 or 7,000 cycles at most. ”"The big picture is that there may be a very simple way to stabilize nanowires of the type that we studied," Penner said. "If this turns out to be generally true, it would be a great advance for the community." Not bad for just fooling around in the laboratory.

Since her discovery, Mya Le Thai has gone on to a successful career as the Principal Scientist with the Enevate Corporation,

This article originally appeared eight years ago.

Fatherhood

Anthony Mackie explains his refreshingly old-school approach to raising his boys to be men

"In the past 20 years, we've been living through the death of the American male."

@thepivot/TikTok

Anthony Mackie explains how he raises his boys to become men.

While on an episode of The Pivot podcast, Marvel star and father to four sons Anthony Mackie recently took a strong stance regarding masculinity, saying: "In the past 20 years, we've been living through the death of the American male…but I raised my boys to become young men.”

While that sentence might at first seem like we’re heading into some cringey “alpha male” territory, the Captain America: Brave New World actor also elaborated on the values he instills in sons, like being respectful, having humility, saying “yes sir” or “yes ma'am” and “thank you,” opening the door for women, making sure their mother is "taken care of and provided for.”

Mackie then provided an example, saying that before leaving for a job, he would make his 15-year-old son the “man of the house,” with the responsibility of making sure the doors were locked and the alarm was on. Because, as Mackie put it, “if I’m not there to protect, he gotta be there to protect.”

This sentiment reflects a broader shift that many parents are experiencing. While there are certainly many praises to sing about modern practices like gentle parenting, many people are also longing for a return of some “traditional” approaches that are equally beneficial, particularly when it comes to setting helpful boundaries and teaching manners.

As one viewer put it, “That’s called structure, responsibility, accountability, and direction.”

But there’s also Mackie’s take on masculinity itself—involving caring for and protecting others, showing up for responsibilities, and embodying true leadership—which people are positively responding to.

leadership, raising sons, fathers and sons, young menMasculinity doesn't have to be toxic. Photo credit: Canva

Mackie's take t seems to touch on admirable traits that can go unnoticed by both far left progressives, who wave the flag of “toxic masculinity” (and thus alienate half the population), and the right wing "manfluencers" like Andrew Tate who offer a place for men to be welcomed while promoting actual toxic traits like misogyny, narcissism, and domination.

“That’s not the masculinity that needs to die. More fathers need to teach this,” one person wrote about Mackie's take.

Another echoed, “What a beautiful way to articulate being a man.”

As another viewer noted, parents can of course teach boys these traits while also teaching “emotional intelligence too—vulnerability, honesty, empathy, care. Then the boys will be golden.”

And just as we can incorporate both new and old parenting styles, we can also integrate some nuance in the way we talk about masculinity. Our conversations surrounding gender roles are constantly in flux, and yet there's a bit of stuckness around this topic—what makes a “real” man, how to be a “good” man, and so on. Mackie’s take put to words what a lot of folks are feeling: that the good parts of masculinity are being erased along with the bad, and that if we really do want the next generation of men to be fully realized, we need to teach them what that looks like.

Watch the full podcast episode below:

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